in the western me me me , in Chine we we we . - UP: 32
China has the option to pause and sacrifice its economy to save the people because the goverment has power, while the West doesnt have this option, because the economy has complete rule of the political sphere. - UP: 18
Martin is a rare one, Salute Martin. - UP: 39
Rare like a flying pig and just as believable - UP: 0
"Government by the people for the people are preached in the West but it's been practiced in the East" ? WBgeo - UP: 39
the West copied the slogan only but not the action. 'to serve the people' is the maxim of the Chinese government - UP: 10
Yes, so true. - UP: 0
@Leo L In the west, it's just a con. - UP: 1
China is growing everyday and stronger than ever, of course haters gonna hate. - UP: 109
Hatred and Jealousy is a sickness like cancer, if you do not get rid of them, they will destroy you, your loved ones, your community and your nation. - UP: 2
Haters gonna hate the fact that China is going nowhere but up - UP: 109
And they are so good and effective that it is impossible to contain China's path to global leadership in any peaceful way! - UP: 2
I dont care if China provides a good life for its own people. We just don't want the wolf warrior economic bullying they engage in. If China wants to engage in fair and transparent relations with other countries I think that is good. But none of us want to be dominated by China either. - UP: 0
@Narglar Wing "economic bullying"
You mean like Americans are doing against Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba and others denying access to international banking where Americans still have influence and impose misery to their populations that did nothing against the American people?
Sanctions against Cuba had proven only the people are affected, Governments don't care but Americans still insist on imposing misery to the civilian population in order to punish them as bad as possible. - UP: 0
if a person lives in and relies on society to survive, they have the responsibility to give up some "personal rights or freedom" to prevent the society from being destroyed. People can't use their own personal rights to harm others' personal rights. - UP: 48
what about giving up some your 'personal rights and freedoms' to prevent the society from being destroyed? - UP: 0
@D Cliffe that based on how you define the human rights. - UP: 3
@D Cliffe , Wuhan residents gave all their personal and freedom rights for 76 days, they did the right thing at the right time. - UP: 2
@Khani Suya so did the Victorians, not sure how many days, but enough to stop it or lie about numbers or weld doors up. - UP: 0
@D Cliffe , also did we Indians had the most strick locked down, but didn't work. Not all work as expected, make a note to yourself. - UP: 0
I don't know why many Westerners don't trying to listen to Jacques. I think Jacques really knows China better than many Westerners， don't have to believe everything he said, but wouldn't it be better to listen from different angles？ - UP: 61
When it comes to the very idea of possibly learning from Asia, most Westerners stick their fingers in their ears and go " LA LA LA LA LA LA". - UP: 11
The systemic demonization of China to divert attention away from US's own internal problems will continue no matter what, they need to create a common enemy, a convenient scapegoat. If Australia was in a similar power standing as China is now, challenging US's hegemony, the US would pick on AUS too, they may use the plight of the Aboriginal people as a tool, AUS being a democracy won't mean a thing, just look at what US did to Japan in the 80's when it was looking likely to challenge the US dominance, their economy went stagnant for 3 decades. - UP: 11
@yingluo83 As an Aussie, I have to agree with you. I'd be in the minority though as there is a large disconnect between the Australian public and the realities of geopolitics. It was never in the news here that the US stepped in to export more beef, barley, timber etc to China, when China stopped purchasing those commodities from us.
Unfortunately, Australia will always have to follow US foreign policy as they underwrite our security. What the political elites can never admit, is that they don't truely believe that China is an existential security threat, the country we are really afraid of is Indonesia. Their population is *x10 bigger than ours*, is only 10min away by boat, they are poor, we are rich and the rise of extremist Islam is a constant worry. If I was Indonesian, might I be tempted to take a hugely rich land right next to me from the few infidels who live there? Who can stop me? Alone, Australia cannot stop an Indonesian invasion, we don't have enough bullets. So, we need big brother US, the greatest war monger on the planet, as a deterrent and of course their only military base is at the northern tip of Australia, right next to Indonesia. - UP: 2
@jascforfun I fully agree with you that AUS and other US allies in asia had to bound themselves to the US warship against China due to historical reasons and ingrained fear of the word "communist", but as you pointed out, the US on the one hand encouraged Morrison and co to attack China on Covid/human rights/HK etc. and when China reduce trade with AUS the US conveniently steps in to increase it's trade, just as the US sanctioning HUAWEI so the European companies can't do business with them while giving exemptions to US companies to continue trading with HUAWEI.
Perhaps AUS leaders should not be so overly enthusiatic in being US's asia deputy, it should ask itself, is provoking China with impunity, running an echo chamber in the local media with borderline propaganda news and commentary on China in the long term interest of AUS. Maybe, just maybe it's not wise to make your neighbor of 1.4 billion people, your biggest trading partner, who are becoming wealthier year by year, fast developing technologically, militarily and is an united continental civilizational country angry. What the western media is doing with it's biased and sometimes down right false reporting has made the Chinese people reesnt the west with mistrust, they feel frustrated and discriminated against. Remember hatred goes both ways.
In today's world the US is still viewed as a reliable security guarantor, but for how much longer, when the US currency is no longer the world's reserve currency how will they pay for their military with their annual trillion dollar deficit? Not to mention almost 130% of it's GDP in debt, the US's mighty military is in part pay for by China, the free loading can't last forever. When this happens will they be there for AUS no matter what just because AUS is a democracy with shared "values"? Or will US interest comes above all? The US can make a withdraw across the pacific but what's left for AUS in asia? A few billion angry asians? - UP: 2
You make rationale, objective points.
However, the simple reality right now is that Australia cannot defend itself alone. If Indonesia turns into an extremist Islamic state and invades, is China going to send it's citizens to die down under? Will China threaten to nuke Jakarta? Will India? Given the geopolitical reality, only the US can be counted on to provide an effective deterrant and defence of Australia.
Then comes Trump, unpredictable, pushing away allies and turning inward to America 1st and demanding a transactional approach with everyone. What do you do when your only security guarantor becomes unpredictable and demands you take their side over China? Do you place the security of your country at risk or do you sacrifice some economic prosperity, by going against your largest trading partner?
Just before relations between Australia and China nosedived, just before Australia called for that "independant" COVID enquiry, US diplomats (including that b@stard Pompeo) visited Australia and told my government that we would have to choose between security (US) or economics (China). So, Australia chose security, which is understandable and rationale. In return China, acting as any superpower would, retaliates by making an example of Australia through economic punishment.
So what about Australia's longer term interest, as you asked? That's where the new US administration comes in. I think my government is hoping that Biden will take a far less openly confrontational stance with China, that will at least let Australia keep it's mouth shut instead of demanding we continually poke our largest customer in the eye. In the mean time, we'll do our best to diversify exports, though such will not make up for lost China trade. Best case scenario, after several years, trade with China can return to something more normal. Worst case scenario, Australia is permenantely frozen out of China's market and China is able to diversify iron ore imports away to Africa or Brazil. Unfortunately, when I examine the cold, hard facts, if Australia is incapable of protecting itself, we will never be a truely independant country. I mean Queen Elizabeth is still our nominal head of state with the union jack still on the Australian flag. - UP: 0
@jascforfun I think that at present. Singapore and Malaysia have far more reason to fear Indonesia than Australia. They are neighbors, and Singapore has far more concentrated wealth than Oz. Malaysia promotes a moderate vision of Islam that clashes with Indonesia's fundamentalists; note that a disproportionate amount of sectarian violence by religious extremists around the world is directed at others with different visions of the same faith.
Plenty of lndonesians do respect and even (grudgingly) admire Malaysia and Singapore. Check out the posts by Indonesian trolls here; they are directed almost entirely at Singapore and Malaysia. Indonesia's main issue with Oz is over the 'liberation' of East Timor/Timor Leste, and 'Nobel Peace Prize' laureates Gusmao and Horta have already been set up and humiliated as dupes by Oz.
Ironically, some Indonesians resent Malaysia's greater and Singapore's far greater success and development as both of the latter are SE Asian nations with large Malay populations. Colonial mindset also makes some resentful Indonesians focus on their Asian neighbors rather than Australians, who are both geographically and culturally far removed from Indonesia. - UP: 0
Martin is such a wisdom guy..salute👍 - UP: 18
Chinese just want to be left alone.
They just wanna do their things, without making troubles. Not because they are dumb or afraid, but they dont want any troubles, costs too much energy for nothing. - UP: 64
why militarise and dominate economically a whole sea to the detriment of neighbours then? - UP: 0
All people have to do is look at history. Who has been the one invading, taking over countries, and killing communities around the world? The USA and UK. Look at the world map today. Australia, America, Hawaii, New Zealand - all of those lands were stolen from native. How dare Westerners point fingers at China. - UP: 5
@D Cliffe because China been there over 1000 years. people like you never understand what is 1000 years, even can't understand different in 10 years. - UP: 1
@Hud Robin lets get this in context, CCP has only been around less than 100 years. - UP: 0
I have been sadly disappointed and surprised by how the western countries react to this pandemic. - UP: 10
Trust arrives on foot, but departs on horseback.
But before the departure, first is denial and freaking out.
People in the West know something is very wrong, but keep playing the 'democracy charade'. And go along with the scapegoating and supremacy narrative.
But one day, they will understand the illusion, and then the smoke and mirrors will no longer hold its spell. - UP: 1
We are still locked ourselves in North America home now. It has been for for 10 months already. Very disappointed. - UP: 0
As a German I can say that the German government has totally messed up when it comes to fast and efficient pandemic response. It's really sad that we are considered a good example in the West. And China has done a significant job. - UP: 2
A government who work for their people with thought and care. - UP: 4
"We culture" and "Me culture " - UP: 4
Ex Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd also has a deep a d broad understanding of China and he probably can do more now to promote the West understanding China in his role in the Asia Society than he could as PM of a xenophobic , racist Australian gvt that is wedded to the US, no matyer what. - UP: 0
Beng An Chan
Individual rights are paramount in the west . So the individual can bring home the virus to kill their parents , grand parents ? - UP: 1
Martin: You are pinpoint accurate in your analysis of the whole situation in China and other countries in the Far East with similar root culture. I hope more westerners understand this instead of just labelling China using authoritarian means to direct its citizens. I was born in Singapore and emigrated to Canada 30 years ago. Never been to China expect for a long 9 hours stop-over in Bejing airport. But I can understand how China as a whole functions. - UP: 1
Here the west mean only america not whole europe guys!!!! - UP: 1
Democracy is good if the people is all had good education, good food to eat. But for developing country its kinda hard cause money talk sometimes. Gdp must be over $30 000 for the democracy to succeed - UP: 1
Ummm, America has very poor levels of education and terrible economic disparity. Maybe that’s why it’s the end of democracy for America. - UP: 3
well, not quite. the reason why America’s democracy is so polarized now is because it has already turned into plutocracy- political system is sooooo controlled by rich ppl, the top 1% of the society.
But democracy is that the government should listen to and take care of the majority of people, not just the small percentage of rich ppl. That’s why America democracy has gone wrong. - UP: 2
Please don't confuse democracy concept with democracy procedures/tools. The West, especially USA, like to confuse you all to believe democracy procedures is democracy concept for a very hegemonistics & imperialistics ulterior motive. Below here is a brief definition of democracy.
DEMOCRACY CONCEPT: "government for the people, government of the people, government by the people" as defined by Plato, a Greek philosopher, and reinforced by former POTUS Abraham Lincoln. Did China achieve this mission? Did USA achieve this mission? You be the judge based on the true definition of democracy.
DEMOCRACY PROCEDURES OR TOOLS:
USA had adopted one person one vote, universal suffrage, and multi party choice in the election system as a democratic procedures, but keep confusing its populace as democratic concept for a covert reason, i.e. domestically to hold on to the best interests of the oligarchy and the deep state; internationally to hold on to its hegemon power. Hence plutocracy adopted.
China had adopted a "select, then elect" system as a democratic procedures. Its leaders are selected through stages of examination with criteria including academic qualification, governing achievements track records, improvement of people's lives, and etc. Then, after getting selected, a range of successful candidates are elected by votes. Hence meritocracy adopted. - UP: 4
So abolish the oligarchy and establish a one party state. It would suit the ruling classes too. - UP: 2
@Claire Khaw That won't work either. Government systems is dead thing. It is like a car. You can drive a car into a crowd of people or you can drive people where they want to go.
The problem with the US is that all the people in government want to steal money from the US treasury. They simply don't care about the people of the US.
That won't change no matter what kind of government you change to in the US. - UP: 4
Democracy didn't last long in Ancient Athens. - UP: 1
To the West, the Familial Relationship between govt and people is totally unheard of. - UP: 0
A wise man, Prof Jacques. - UP: 1
China government and the Chinese people are an organic wholeness. No struggles within, all march towards the same goal, all fulfilling their own role. - UP: 14
There are also bad apples.... lol. - UP: 1
Yes. You are right. Given a chance, the rich and wealthy are queuing up to get their western passports and moving their kids and money out. Their common goal seems to be to make as much money as possible and move to the West as soon as they make it. They are all marching to the West while mouthing how wonderful China. Their mouths and feet are moving in the opposite direction.
And what is more, if the poor has a chance, they would want to match to the West too.
I would not describe this as organic wholeness.
I wonder if Martin could explain this curious phenomenon when he is blowing the trumpet of China non stop. - UP: 0
Like jack ma. - UP: 1
dubunking. You are outdated. Many of them are moving back to China. I’m one of them. I’m not even Mainlander Chinese. - UP: 5
@Zeis Siez yup that guy is too outdated with the pathetic mindset that white west is superior. - UP: 4
dubunking. Many who initially thought the moon is rounder on the other side are finally seeing the greatness of socialism in China, especially after this pandemic. I came from a democratic country, I can go on and on of the failings of the system. The people have faith in their government, because the government delivered to them time and time again. - UP: 4
"govt is part of family" - UP: 1
Gun Sum Wong
Only true in Chinese. - UP: 0
Gun Sum Wong
Martin Jacques has got it. Speaking as a Chinese living overseas all my life I would say China is governed by a culture. The leadership in the Central government, Provincial officials and the citizens at large all shared a common 5000+ years culture which has defined what is good and bad, right and wrong , evil and virtue. If it is for the common good everybody has no problem to comply thus all the central government has to do is announce it and up and down the country it will be done without objection.
It seems like a magic to the west but it is true because the pandemic fighting actions by the government are in line with the Chinese culture. Like I can tell the world that there is no "China first" policy because Chinese culture is unselfish, willing to share and help. If the Central Government does thing at variant with the Chinese culture all hell will break loose. I would even go as far as saying the current Chinese government is fair and true representative of the Chinese culture. Like when the vaccines were being developed in China I knew China would make them available to every nation before it was announced by China.
The Chinese culture is just a set of old teachings handed down by the ancestors from generation to generation. The Chinese are not obliged to adhere to any of them and may even not believe or pratise them. However it is "the" standard with which every Chinese is judged including members in the leadership. Confucius is a big but not all of the Chinese culture.
The western media has not understood China because they never bother to learn the true China. UP: 1
马丁 · 雅克说到点上了。作为一个在海外生活了一辈子的中国人，我认为中国是由文化统治的。中央政府的领导，省级官员和广大市民都有共同的五千多年的文化，这个文化界定了什么是好，什么是坏，什么是对，什么是错，什么是恶，什么是善。如果是为了大家的共同利益，大家都毫无问题去遵守，所以中央政府所要做的就是宣布行动，然后全国上下都会毫无异议地执行。
Great points. The West has a deep insecurity in this way. - UP: 0
I still don't understand why people keep saying Germany has done well. Australia has done much better than Germany if you look at the numbers. Germany is hyped. - UP: 4
It is easy to control a pandemic when you are an island with a sparse population. - UP: 0
In the far east, the people are family. In the west, the people are livestock. - UP: 4
Martin is right on point about influence of Confucianism in east Asian cultures. The relationship from family unit to the community to the country at large is paternal in nature, acting as the glue that holds the country together as one big social unit. Not that Confucianism is perfect, but in this situation of national disaster/calamity (COVID-19) that calls for unity and sacrifice of self for the greater good, this ideology works pretty well. Not arguing about individual rights but responsibility and sacrifice for the greater good. - UP: 2
It is terrific, innit?! It’s just a good feeling of unity and accord! The way human beings were always meant to be. Before egos became too big! - UP: 0
New Zealand has been handling COVID-19 really well. They have a responsible and effective govt led by Jacinda Ardern who won the trust of the people of NZ. Present day Chinese govt is down to earth, responsive to people's call.
Most Western politicians are after votes and not able to run effective and responsible govt. - UP: 1
What the Gov did in China aligns with Chinese people's priority which is human lives are the highest priority - UP: 8
The longer the west takes in accepting the china govt model is better than their own the more they will fall behind. While China has adopted everything worth adopting from outsiders and succeeded immensely the west is reluctant to learn from China. This western attitude stems from hubris and if continued will spell its end. - UP: 1
Martin Jacques is a pure, decent scholar. Unlike KM and some others, with diplomatic intention behind their speech. Although, the common thing is, both of them brag about China a bit too much - UP: 0
Government is the necessary good in a Confucius society - UP: 0
China takes the universe into consideration. Malaysia never. - UP: 0
Save us China! - UP: 1
Western countries continuously moving between left and right while China solely focus on moving forward in the pass 30 years. If any other country who adopted western style democracy would do the same, overall standard of living would have improved even its moving forward with a snail pace. - UP: 0
Martin is correct to say that Confucius teachings of obedience and filial piety is still very much alive in China and to a certain degree, all east Asian cultures. - UP: 0
Who is to blame then in the case of Western societies? The government or the people? How are the people to accept to renege their individual rights to governments that obviously have grown to work for the interests of a small minority of group of people, namely the rich and the corporations they control? - UP: 0
Everything comes with cost. In this COVID-19 case, China has done a better job. However, the freedom (or individualism) brings a more dare-to-fight spirit which will possibly encourage think out of box. But unfortunately, nowadays Western society has more regulations, more laws, more political right. Less freedom than China. - UP: 11
In America if we considered government as an extension of our family we certainly wouldn’t put up with the lying nut jobs in government. Since we think of ourselves as divorced from government we tolerate all the corruption and lies as if it has nothing to do with us. - UP: 2
that is the core of communism. a government having a harmonous relationship with its people. a government sets up directive and then shall the people follow. - UP: 6
I wish the US population realized this.
There is still a huge red scare here and it's ridiculous. Constant bashing of China in the media.
Our "culture" is so toxic and hyper focused on individualism.
Would love to visit China one day, I read and watch a lot of videos about it because I never get any perspective besides "China is evil" in American media. It's gross. - UP: 4
Personally, I dont think it matters who is better as long as we can achieve harmony and not bigotry. - UP: 1
Whatever, Martin Jacques, says, if given a chsnce, everyone will run to the west. - UP: 0
not true. its more comfortable and safe to live in china than some of the western countries. thirty millions chinese tourists went abroad each year before the pandemic and they all came home to china - UP: 2
Now is the other way around. Our family really want to live in China, too bad cannot go at this time. - UP: 0
overall, this intimacy, family like relationship between Chinese people and government as Jacques described here is absolutely true, which is nonexistent in those so called "democratic" countries with the same Confucius root. you would be able to testify to that if you had lived there, long or short, traveled there, or understand Chinese language and are familiar with their social media. it's an peculiar yet absolutely enviable social atmosphere for an outsider. - UP: 0