[2022-12-12]巴基斯坦防务论坛：印度现在相当于中国的哪一年？

dreambear
Based on the data on production and consumption, the actual living standard of an ordinary person in India is about the same as that in China in the mid-to-late 1990s. It was actually in 1993 that China's GDP per capita caught up with India. In other words, after nearly 30 years of development, India has only dawdled forward for a few years.

根据生产者和消费者的物价指数，印度普通人的实际生活水平与中国在1990年代中后期的水平大致相同。实际上，中国的人均 GDP 是在1993年才赶上印度的。换句话说，经过近30年的发展，印度只是磨磨蹭蹭前进了几年。

Irfan Baloch -> dreambear
is there data on both Koreas? or Pakistan?

有朝鲜半岛和巴基斯坦的数据吗？

FairAndUnbiased
actually India today is like Late Qing, maybe 1885 or so.

其实今天的印度就像晚清，大概是1885年左右。

AViet
In mentality and social progress, India is equal to China before Shang Yang, i,e. around 2,500 years ago. Even by then, China was more advanced than today India in many aspects, including urban planning and management (And better than today Vietnam too)
I am totally serious. Looking at many modern African tribes, I think they are like Chinese of 4000 - 5000 years ago in mentality.
But no one can say that officially. And states continue to make mistakes, putting people to miserable due to that so-called "political correctiveness".

在思想和社会进步方面，印度与商鞅之前的中国相当，也就是大约2500年前。即使在那时，中国在许多方面都比今天的印度先进，包括城市规划和管理(也比现在的越南好)。
我不是开玩笑。看看许多现代非洲部落，我认为他们在思想上就像4000-5000年前的中国人。
但没有人会正式说出来。所以各国继续犯错，由于所谓的“政治正确”，使民众痛苦不堪。

Baburfromsarmarkand
India wont catch up to China. Chinese avg global IQ is high.

印度赶不上中国的，中国人的全球平均智商很高。

MH.Yang
In 2007, China's GDP was 3.55 trillion US dollars. It is similar to India's GDP(2.9 trillion) in 2021.
However, this does not mean that 2021India has reached the level of 2007China. Because the value of $3 trillion in 2007 is significantly higher than that of $3 trillion in 2021.
I suggest this comparison. In 2021, the global GDP will be 96.1 trillion US dollars. India accounted for 3%. In 1997, the global GDP was 31.62 trillion US dollars. China's GDP is 961.6 billion US dollars, accounting for 3%. So India in 2021 should be equal to China in 1997.
The real economic gap between China and India should be 24 years.
However, from 1990s to 2011, China always maintained an economic growth rate of 10 +%. And India cannot achieve this speed. So if India wants to reach the level of 2021China, it will take far more than 24 years.

2007年，中国 GDP 为3.55万亿美元，与印度2021年的 GDP (2.9万亿美元)相当。
然而，这并不意味着2021年印度已经达到了2007年中国的水平。因为2007年3万亿美元的价值远远高于2021年的3万亿美元。
我建议这样比较。2021年全球生产总值应该是96.1万亿美元，印度占3%。1997年，全球生产总值为31.62万亿美元。中国GDP为9616亿美元，占全球生产总值的3%。所以2021年的印度应该和1997年的中国相当。
中国和印度之间的实际经济差距应该是24年。
然而，从1990年代到2011年，中国的经济增长率一直保持在10%以上。印度无法达到这个速度。因此，如果印度想要达到2021年中国的水平，需要的时间远远超过24年。

Meengla
Somehow I think this should not be about GDP now or decades or centuries before. Both Indians and Chinese are 'hardy' and 'pragmatic' people with huge populations--tens of millions of exportable people. India, per my understanding, is a little better than China on the 'demographic' challenges and India is being courted by the global rich countries and their allies; Advantage India!
India is where, or probably considerably ahead, where China was in late 1970s: China shunned its dogmatic communism and embraced whatever it took to advance. India is doing it since the early 1990s. I can't tell who will be where by 2100. But going by my understanding, India has a fair chance to be ahead of China by then. I kind of suspect I will be gone by then

不知为何，我认为这不应该是现在或几十年或几个世纪以前的GDP问题。印度人和中国人都是“吃苦耐劳”、“务实”的民族，人口众多，有数千万可输出人口。据我所知，印度在“人口”挑战方面比中国略胜一筹，而且印度正受到全球富裕国家及其盟友的追捧；印度的优势！
印度现在相当于中国1970年的情况，或者可能远远领先：中国避开了教条主义的共产主义，接受一切能够促进发展的东西。印度从1990年代初就开始这么做了。我不知道2100年之前谁会领先。但根据我的理解，到那时，印度有相当大的机会领先中国。我到那时可能已经离开人世了。

renhai -> Meengla
If you don't understand the gap between China and India. Let me remind you.
India became independent in 1947. The same year. China began a full-scale civil war.
In 1947, India had more companies and factories than China.
India has more steel production than China.
India has more gold reserves than China.
India has more railways and infrastructure than China.
India has never suffered large-scale war damage like China.
India has never been subject to systematic sanctions like China.
…………
Go along this road. Now India should be richer and stronger than China. Unless a miracle happens... isn't it?
oh unfortunately. Miracles happen.
in 2022, China's GDP per capita is 5 times that of India. China's urbanization rate is twice that of India. China's steel production is 10 times that of India. China's high-speed railway is N times that of India. Chinese literacy rate, life expectancy, HDI, average height etc. are much higher than India............
I guess. China and India want to ask each other the same question ~ How did you do it?
Of course, if miracles happen in India. China is like India in 1947. India may lead China at 2100...

如果你不了解中国和印度之间的差距，让我提醒你吧：
印度于1947年独立，同年，中国发动了全面内战。
1947年，印度拥有的公司和工厂超过中国。
印度的钢铁产量超过中国。
印度的黄金储备超过中国。
印度的铁路和基础设施超过中国。
印度从未像中国那样遭受过大规模的战争破坏。
印度从未像中国那样受到系统性制裁。
…………
沿着这轨迹走下去。现在的印度应该比中国更富有、强大。除非奇迹发生... 是这样吧？
哦遗憾的是，奇迹就是发生了。
2022年，中国的人均 GDP 是印度的5倍。中国的城市化率是印度的两倍。中国的钢铁产量是印度的10倍。中国高速铁路的里程是印度的 N 倍。中国人的识字率、预期寿命、人类发展指数、平均身高等都远远高于印度......
我想。中国和印度都想问对方同样的一个问题 ~ 你是怎么做到的？
当然，如果奇迹发生在印度。中国就像1947年的印度。那么印度可能就会在2100年超过中国...

tower9 -> renhai
Japan was way ahead of China in the 80s, what about now? Countries change. Environments change. China is facing unprecedented challenges which will slow it down. Indias system is also adapting and changing. China will likely maintain its lead but the gap will be narrowed.

日本在80年代遥遥领先中国，那么现在呢？国家变了。环境变了。中国正面临前所未有的挑战，这将减缓他的脚步。印度的体制也在不断适应和变化。中国可能会保持领先地位，但差距将会越来越小。

tower9 -> Meengla
China is way ahead of India in development but its demographic and geopolitical challenges are mounting and snowballing as the collective west is turning hostile. India meanwhile has a favorable geopolitical situation now and is starting to attract massive investment from global capital. India also has a more healthy demographic trend than China. So I think even though india won’t likely catch up to China in development anytime soon it will start narrowing the gap.

中国在发展方面远远领先于印度，但随着西方集体变得敌对，中国面临的人口和地缘政治挑战越来越多，而且越来越严峻。与此同时，印度目前处于有利的地缘政治形势，正开始吸引来自全球资本的大量投资。印度的人口趋势也比中国健康。因此，我认为，尽管印度在发展方面不太可能很快赶上中国，但它将开始缩小差距。

tower9
Gdp wise about 2007 or so. Social development wise probably around 1997

印度相当于中国2007年左右的 GDP，1997年左右的社会发展

Meengla -> tower9
Yes. And I absolutely LOVE your measured response here and elsewhere!
There is a lesson from what you said for the PDF Pakistanis. The power of the dominant West and their allies. Look where the global wealth lies right now???? But unfortunately for this fanboy forum, the reality for Pakistan was that Pakistan was/is too dependent on the West and their rich/powerful allies and yet a sitting Prime Minister in Pakistan [Yes, Imran Khan!!], despite his multiple tools to get back to power, used the absolute worst, most destructive option to get back to power. He has succeeded in fooling people. But, boy, if the powers out there decide to punish Pakistan.... The fools on PDF don't know that 'Beggars can't be choosers'. But then a chunk of them live overseas anyway??? Who needs enemies with friends like them??
That Pakistan had gained since 1947 as a Western ally couldn't be thrown away due to some imagined 'Haqeeqi Azadi' (Real Freedom) proposed by a Trump x 10 Narcissist Imran Khan!! A Nation should fight its battles when it's ready. Otherwise, advantage 'the enemy', in this case India!!

是的。我非常喜欢你在这里和其他地方做出的慎重回应！
你说的话给巴基斯坦人民上了一课。占主导地位的是西方及其盟友。看看现在的全球财富在哪里？？？但遗憾的是，对于这个粉丝论坛来说，巴基斯坦的现实是，巴基斯坦过去/现在都太依赖于西方国家和富有/强大的盟友，然而，现任的巴基斯坦总理(是的，伊姆兰·汗！！)，尽管他使用了多种手段重新掌权，但他用了绝对最糟糕、最具破坏性的选择来重新掌权。他成功地愚弄了人们。但是，孩子，如果外面的势力决定惩罚巴基斯坦... PDF上的白痴们不明白“乞丐不能挑肥拣瘦”的道理。不过，他们中的一大部分人还是生活在海外的？？？有他们这样的朋友，谁还需要敌人呢? ？
巴基斯坦自1947年以来作为西方盟友所获得的东西，不能因为一个10倍于特朗普的自恋狂伊姆兰·汗提出的一些想象中的“真正的自由”而扔掉！！一个国家应该在万事俱备的时候去战斗。否则，会让“敌人”获得优势，在这情况下是印度！！

tower9 -> Meengla
I actually support Imran khan and see his coup as a major destabilization of Pakistan.

实际上，我支持伊姆兰·汗，并认为他的政变是巴基斯坦的主要不稳定因素。

Meengla -> tower9
I supported him until his impetuous actions starting April 2022. One reason for my absence from this forum was a new stressful job. Another was disillusionment with Pakistan as a State.

我支持他，直到他从2022年4月开始的冲动行为。我离开这个论坛的原因之一是新的工作压力很大。另一个原因是，对巴基斯坦这个国家的幻想破灭了。

tower9 -> Meengla
I agree that pakistan is in terrible shape. Prospects do not look good either. Pakistan has the worst leadership in South Asia.
India is actually gathering great momentum for development and commercial vibrancy and will probably leave Pakistan in the dust in the near future unfortunately. I just see the writing on the wall

我同意巴基斯坦的情况很糟糕。前景也不容乐观。巴基斯坦的领导力在南亚是最差的。
印度实际上正在积聚巨大的发展势头和商业活力，遗憾的是在不久的将来，印度可能会把巴基斯坦远远甩在身后。我只是看到征兆。

kankan326 -> tower9
Every country has its development ceiling. India's development ceiling is not high unfortunately. China is the world factory and world consumption power is relatively stable. India's further development is equal to grabbing pie from China. Which is very tough task for India. West investment is not so important for a country's substantial progress. It's double blades sword. It may help a country and it may become an obstacle for domestic industry progress. Actually west investment was never a key reason for China's success.

每个国家都有自己的发展上限。不幸的是，印度的发展上限并不高。中国是世界工厂，世界消费能力相对稳定。印度的进一步发展等同于从中国手中抢夺蛋糕。这对印度来说是一项艰巨的任务。西方的投资对于一个国家的实质性进步，并不是那么重要。这是把双刃剑。它可以帮助一个国家，也可能成为其国内工业发展的障碍。实际上，西方的投资从来不是中国成功的关键原因。

Meengla -> tower9
It pains me to agree with you even partially but I must partially but and I will not agree wholly, at least not right now. Pakistan had and still has some major pluses. You see: Pakistan is a much more homogeneous State. Less frictions due to much of the population shares the same religion and culture. AND Pakistan, despite all bad leaders, was ahead of India into the 1980s when India after 1947 had more advantages. Heck, even the viability of Pakistan was in question around 1947.
Pakistanis need to realize a few over-arching principles: That the beggars can't be chooses. That the global wealth is still with the West and its allies. That instability is worse than corruption. That economic growth leads to geopolitical options. That the entire political class of Pakistan--inclusive of Imran Khan his party--is borne from the same soil of good and bad.
The way forward for Pakistan is stability. I don't care if even the benighted General Zia ul Haq is back to power for the next 10 years, it's the political stability that's needed first and foremost.

即使是部分同意你的观点，我也很痛苦，但是我必须部分同意。我不会完全同意，至少现在不会。巴基斯坦过去和现在都有一些主要的优势。你看：巴基斯坦是一个更加同质化的国家。由于大多数人拥有相同的宗教和文化，摩擦较少。尽管巴基斯坦有很多糟糕的领导人，但在1947年后印度拥有更多的优势的情况下，巴基斯坦一直领先印度到1980年代。操，在1947年那会儿，巴基斯坦就连生存能力都受到了质疑。
巴基斯坦人需要认识到几个首要原则：乞丐不能挑肥拣瘦。全球财富仍然掌握在西方及其盟友手中。这种不稳定比腐败更糟糕。这种经济增长带来了地缘政治选择。巴基斯坦的整个政治阶层，包括伊姆兰·汗的政党，都是来自于同一片良莠不齐的土地。
巴基斯坦前进的道路是稳定。即使是愚昧无知的齐亚·哈克将军在接下来的10年里重新掌权，我也不在乎，首先需要的是政治稳定。

tower9 -> Meengla
Well I think homogeneity is overrated. North Korea is the most homogenous country in the world and it is an isolated basket case. I do agree that increased diversity of ethnic groups and religions increase social friction but I think if India manages to make doing business easier in the country, invest in infrastructure and create a dynamic environment for investment and commerce which leverages its massive population, it will easily become one of the worlds great economic engines.

呃，我觉得同质性被高估了。朝鲜是世界上同质化程度最高的国家，也是一个孤立的国家。我同意种族和宗教多样性的增加会加剧社会摩擦，但是我认为，如果印度能够让在这个国家做生意变得更容易，投资基础设施，创造一个充满活力的投资和商业环境，利用其庞大的人口，它将很容易成为世界上最伟大的经济引擎之一。

hussain0216
Different countries
China took advantage of a period of time
That time has now gone and countries and companies will ensure another China does not rise that they are forced to be partially dependent on

两个不同的国家
中国抓住了时代的机会
那个时代已经过去了，现在各国和各企业都将确保不让另一个类似中国的国家崛起，使它们被迫部分依赖这个崛起的国家

Abdul Rehman Majeed -> hussain0216
Even today Chinese are still superior to the Indians.
This is the reason why Elon Musk fired the India CEO of Twitter and continues to make Teslas in China and not in India.

即使在今天，中国人仍然优于印度人。
这就是为什么埃隆•马斯克解雇了推特的印度CEO，继续在中国制造特斯拉，而不是在印度。

Abdul Rehman Majeed
Indians have low IQ, filthy, religious fanatics, bad work ethics, slaves of their colonial masters. etc.
Comparing Indians to Chinese is incorrect at so many level.
It is like comparing an Elephant (China) with a coakroach (India).

印度人智商低、肮脏、宗教狂热、工作道德低下、是殖民地主人的奴隶等等。
把印度人和中国人相比，在很多层面上都是错误的。
这就像把大象(中国)和蟑螂(印度)进行比较一样。

tower9 -> Abdul Rehman Majeed
India has a massive population and there are tens of millions of extremely talented people. Yeah it does have great social problems but it’s middle class is growing and all of its socio economic factors are moving up, though obviously slower than China has done but given its massive population, healthy demographics and favorable geopolitical environment, india will be rising as a great power in this generation.

印度人口众多，有数千万才华横溢的人。是的，印度确实存在巨大的社会问题，但是它的中产阶级正在壮大，所有的社会经济因素都在上升，虽然明显比中国的发展速度慢，但是考虑到其庞大的人口、健康的人口结构和有利的地缘政治环境，印度将在这一代人中崛起为一个大国。

Abdul Rehman Majeed -> tower9
China has productive population while India has useless population.
This is the reason why US companies invest in China not India.

中国拥有高效性的人口，而印度拥有无用性的人口。
这就是为什么美国企业在中国投资，而不是在印度投资的原因。

prashantazazel
Looks like a couple of decades behind. The catch up phase has started. But there are structural issues.
Education sector is in shambles. Cultural backwardness is being reformed very slowly.
The infrastructure is being developed at a decent pace, though.
A government willing to reform the country is the need of the hour.
Realistically, it would be another 2-3 decades before significant parts of the country modernise.

看起来已经落后了几十年。追赶阶段已经开始。但是还存在结构性的问题。
教育部门一片混乱，文化落后的改革进展缓慢。
不过，基础设施的发展速度还是不错的。
一个愿意改革国家的政府是当务之急。
现实地说，印度大部分地区要实现现代化，还需要20至30年的时间才能做到。

Ghazwa-e-Hind
Even slums in China have air conditioners.

即使是中国的贫民窟也有空调。

Abdul Rehman Majeed -> Ghazwa-e-Hind
Exactly.

确实。

Valar.
Two things worked for China:
1. One child policy for 38 years ensured that no poor is even allowed to be born.
2. Western companies putting money and factories in China.
Now the western companies will be putting money in India. And unlike China, India does not even need 1 child policy as their fertility rate has already dropped to 2.1. India will catch up with China sooner than later.

有两件事对中国起了作用：
1、38年的独生子女政策，确保了甚至不允许任何穷人出生。
2、西方公司在中国投资建厂。
如今，西方企业将把资金投入到印度。与中国不同，印度甚至不需要独生子女政策，因为他们的生育率已经下降到2.1了。印度迟早会赶上中国的。

my2cents -> Valar.
One child means, better educated kid, healthy and will inherit both Mom and Dad wealth. In 35 years China has stopped 700 million kids to be born and it had very positive impact on their lives. Also more women participate in work force and hence more income for the family.

独生子女就意味着，受过更好教育的孩子，身体健康，将继承父母的财富。35年来，中国已经阻止了7亿儿童的出生，这对他们的生活产生了非常积极的影响。此外，更多的妇女参加工作，从而为家庭带来更多的收入。

MH.Yang -> Valar.
Contrary to what you might imagine, the "one-child policy" is more strictly enforced among urban residents, employees of state-owned enterprises and government officials. However, it has not been well implemented in poor rural areas. If you Google senior CCP officials, you will find that they all have only one child.
The reasons for this are:
1. The CCP's implementation of the "one-child policy" is actually preparing for the "reform of state-owned enterprises".
The CCP does not intend to give up socialism, so they are prepared to retain and repair state-owned enterprises as the main pillar of the economy. The reform of state-owned enterprises requires large-scale layoffs (45 million employees were dismissed in the first three years of the reform period of state-owned enterprises). If these employees need to raise many children, it will be difficult for the CCP to dismiss them without causing confusion.
Therefore, the CCP began to implement the "one-child policy" in 1979, and began the "state-owned enterprise reform" 20 years later. Therefore, urban residents, employees of state-owned enterprises and government officials are the focus groups of the "one-child policy".
2. In the 1980s and 1990s, China's rural productivity fell behind. Farmers need a sufficient number of people to carry out agricultural production. Moreover, cities also need a sufficient number of migrant workers. Therefore, there is no urgent need for the "one-child policy" in rural areas.
3. The CCP has strong control and organizational capacity over cities and state-owned enterprises, and it can ensure that the "one-child policy" is strictly implemented. If officials or employees violate the policy, they will be dismissed and fined soon.
The villagers in rural areas are closely related, and they help each other escape the policy. For example, village party committee officials notified pregnant women to hide in advance. For example, the officials of the village party committee asked the whole village to share the fines equally, and then returned the collected fines to the villagers in other names. So now, only child families are rarely seen in rural areas of China.

与你想象的相反，“独生子女政策”在城市居民、国有企业员工和政府官员中的执行更为严格。但是，在贫困地区，这一政策并没有得到很好的实施。如果你在谷歌上搜索一下中共的高级官员们，你会发现他们都只有一个孩子。
原因如下：
1、中共执行“独生子女政策”实际上是在为“国有企业改革”做准备。
中共并不打算放弃社会主义，所以他们准备保留和修复国有企业作为经济的主要支柱。国有企业改革需要大规模裁员(国有企业改革前三年，共裁员了4500万人)。如果这些员工需要抚养很多孩子，将很难在不造成混乱的情况下解雇他们。
因此，中共于1979年开始实施“独生子女政策”，20年后开始“国有企业改革”。因此，城市居民、国有企业员工和政府官员是“独生子女政策”的重点人群。
2、在1980年代和1990年代，中国农村生产力落后了。农民需要有足够的人来从事农业生产。此外，城市还需要足够数量的农民工。因此，农村地区并没有迫切需要“独生子女政策”。
3、中共对城市和国有企业有强大的控制和组织能力，能够确保“独生子女政策”得到严格执行。如果官员或雇员违反政策，他们将很快就会被解雇和罚款。
农村地区的村民关系密切，他们相互帮助，共同规避这一政策。例如，村委会干部通知孕妇提前躲起来。例如，村委会干部要求全村平均分摊罚款，然后以其他名义将收缴的罚款返还给村民。所以现在，在中国的农村地区独生子女家庭是很少见的。

etylo -> Valar.
The one child policy mainly applied to the relatively well off urban Han Chinese, never applied to minorities and are not really strictly enforced on poor rural Han Chinese, they were allowed to have 2 or 3 children. This show how ignorant you foreigners about China, thinking that the "evil commies" are just like Nazi Germans trying to cleanse out the bottom population of China.

独生子女政策主要适用于相对富裕城市的汉族，从未适用于少数民族，在贫穷农村的汉族也没有真正严格执行，他们允许生育2或3个孩子。这说明了你们这些外国人对中国有多么无知，臆想“邪恶的共产党”就像纳粹德国人一样试图清除中国的底层人口。

renhai -> Valar.
1. No poor people were born in your country.
2. I invest in automobiles, electronics, machinery, and even agriculture in your country.
I guess your country is at least as rich as Vietnam and Indonesia. isn't it?

1、在你们国家没有穷人出生。
2、我在你们国家投资汽车、电子、机械甚至农业。
我猜你们国家至少像越南和印尼一样富有，不是吗？

Valar. -> renhai
1. Poor were and are still are born in my country because we allow it unlike your country.
2. Yes, you do invest in my country and thanks for that but not to the extent and duration of what westerners have invested in your country.
No, my country is not rich but hey, atleast we have loving siblings unlike you.
Bye.

1、过去和现在我们国家都有穷人出生，因为我们允许他们出生，不像你们国家。
2、是的，你确实在我们国家投资，感谢你，但没有达到西方人在你们国家投资的程度和时间。
是的，我们国家不富裕，但是，嘿，至少我们有可爱的兄弟姐妹，不像你。
再见。

renhai -> Valar.
I admit that the West invests more in China than the West + China invests in Pakistan. But Pakistan has not been sanctioned and blockaded by the West for decades like China. isn't it?
You can accept the western blockade and sanctions for 70 years. And then invest in you for 30 years?
That's what I said... Watching too much western news affects IQ.

我承认西方在中国的投资比西方在巴基斯坦的投资还要多。但巴基斯坦几十年来都没有像中国那样，受到西方的制裁和封锁。不是吗？
你难道可以接受西方长达70年的封锁和制裁，然后投资你们30年？
这就是我所说的... 看太多西方新闻会影响智商。

renhai -> Valar.
Your logic is strange. It seems that you think eliminating the poor can make your country rich. And you think controlling the population explosion is "Killing the poor". You want to say that your country is so poor because there is no population control? (Killing the poor)?
and you seem to hate communism (in order to show loyalty to the western masters?)....
Baby. Where do you think your country is better than communist North Korea?

你的逻辑很奇怪。你似乎认为消灭穷人就可以让你们国家富裕。你认为控制人口爆炸就是“杀死穷人”。你想说你们国家这么贫穷，是因为没有人口控制吗？(杀死穷人)？
而且你似乎很讨厌共产主义啊（为了向西方主子表忠心？）.....
宝贝，你认为你们国家哪里比共产主义的朝鲜更好？

Valar. -> renhai
I can only pity you if you do not understand the logic behind one child policy and how it ensured no poor were even allowed to be born and every single child were put into western factories to work like a robot 12 hours a day and 6 days a week.
Communism also comes from West.
North Korea, What about that psychotic hell country?

如果你不能理解独生子女政策背后的逻辑，不能理解它确保没有穷人出生的方式，以及每个孩子都会被送到西方工厂，像机器人一样每天工作12个小时，每周工作6天，我只能同情你。
共产主义也来自西方。
朝鲜，那个神经病地狱国家？

renhai -> Valar.
I found members from poor countries very interesting. When will it start. You think South Asian countries don't work 16 hours. Work no more than 7 days a week?
I guess. South Asian countries may not understand why they are so poor, backward and failed.

我发现一些来自贫穷国家的人非常有意思。是什么时候开始(这么魔怔)的。那么你是认为南亚国家没有工作16小时，每周工作没有超过7天(，所以才这么落后的)？
我猜，南亚国家可能不明白为什么他们这么贫穷、落后和失败。

renhai -> Valar.
Let's follow your logic... Now kill all the poor in your country. Let your compatriots work 16 hours a day. Work 7 days a week. This will make your country as rich as Indonesia??? You can answer bravely. Yes or no?
I don't know why you think communist Korea is hell... North Korea: 12 years of free education. Free medical care for life. Free allocation of houses. 6 months paid maternity leave.....
Obviously. Watching too much western news affects your IQ.
If you are only 150cm tall Please don't pretend you are as tall as Yao Ming. okay?

让我们按照你的逻辑... 现在把你们国家的所有穷人都杀掉。让你的同胞们每天工作16个小时。每周工作7天。这会使你们国家像印尼一样富有？？？你可以勇敢地回答出来。有还是没有？
我不知道你为什么认为共产主义的朝鲜是地狱... 朝鲜：12年的免费教育。终身免费医疗。免费分配房屋。6个月的带薪产假.....
显然，看太多西方新闻影响了你的智商。
如果你的身高只有150厘米，请不要假装你和姚明一样高。好吗？

Abdul Rehman Majeed -> Valar.
This is Indians day dreaming.
Americans are not fools to invest in a shithole country like India. They are much smarter.

这就是印度人的白日梦。
美国人不是傻瓜，不会在印度这种屎坑国家投资，他们要聪明得多。

FuturePAF -> Abdul Rehman Majeed
America is on shoring as much as possible, those jobs where the labor costs are some what comparable if you take into account transportation costs from Asia as well as distance to locations in the US.
It’s about politics now, as Americans can’t bear another generation of allowing offshoring to keep growing.
More investment will go to India but not on the scale that has been done with China, and this is also partially due to the quality of the infrastructure in China as well as how well trained the Chinese technical labor force is (according to Bill Gates).
Pakistan for it’s part, needs stability and to connect to Central Asia to open up a lot of possibilities for international investors looking to get into that part of the world. Pakistan also can attract a lot of investment if it just becomes inefficient in how it uses its own resources like water. Investment in agriculture by Arab nations looking for food stability on their door step, mining resources for investors looking for raw materials (where Pakistan can integrate into the value chain of China and the west), etc. a lot of possibilities if Pakistan gets its own house in order.
Raising tax revenue through higher property taxes will put the burden on those that can most afford it, but in the long run these people are the ones that will benefit most from a growing economy.
The ending of the Afghan wars allows Pakistan to focus its largest challenge, economics. Now it’s up to the leadership in Pakistan to reorient society to that primary objective, and not get distracted as much as possible.
Pakistan will have to get back on track if it doesn’t want to get further behind India. It has the resources, but just needs the management and disciple to maintain it for decades to be back on par (GDP per capita).

美国正在尽可能地向海外扩张，如果考虑到从亚洲到美国各地的运输成本以及距离，那些需要人工成本的工作有些是可以比较的。
现在是政治问题，因为美国人不再忍受另一代人允许离岸外包继续增长的做法。
更多的投资将流向印度，但规模不会像中国那样，这也部分归功于中国基础设施的质量，以及中国技术劳动力的训练有素(根据比尔盖茨的说法)。
就巴基斯坦而言，它需要稳定，需要与中亚建立联系，以便为希望进入中亚的国际投资者提供多种可能性。巴基斯坦如果在利用自己的资源方面（比如水资源）变得低效，也可以吸引到大量的投资。对于寻求粮食稳定的阿拉伯国家的农业投资，对于寻求原材料的投资者的矿业资源（巴基斯坦在这方面可以融入中国和西方的价值链）等等，如果巴基斯坦把自己的房子收拾好的话，有很多的可能性。
通过提高财产税来增加税收，将把负担放在那些最有能力承担得起的人身上，但从长远来看，这些人才是从经济增长中获益最多的人。
阿富汗战争的结束使巴基斯坦能够集中精力应对其最大的挑战——经济。现在，巴基斯坦的领导层是时候重新调整社会方向了，以实现这一首要目标，而不是尽可能地分散注意力。
如果巴基斯坦不想进一步落后于印度，它就必须回到正轨。它有资源，但只是需要管理层和学徒维持几十年，才能回到平均水平(人均 GDP)。

Meengla -> FuturePAF
Off-shoring is too well entrenched. Yes, there are attempts to bring some things back to America but I believe, just like water flows downhill, manufacturing and even high-end tech jobs will continue to flow downhill: Wherever the 'labor' is cheaper even if (reasonably) subpar.
About Pakistan's prospects--I don't agree (yet!) with the pessimistic outcomes made by our friend @tower9 . He is absolutely well meaning for Pakistan. But I think a new--a truly new--world order is being made. The long anticipated dominance/revival of larger Eurasia --which had been the dominant region in humanity throughout history--is happening. Vast lands with huge populations and natural resources. And Pakistan is geopolitically well placed to reap the benefits in such a revival. There is a reason Indians salivate over the Pakistani part of Kashmir. But for Pakistan, sane leadership is needed. And I'd welcome anyone who provides clean-governance, stability, futuristic policies. There will always be some 'corruption', as it is common in all 3rd world countries. But the worse would be political instability. So no more sloganeering. No more grandiose 'visions'. Stability, relatively efficient governance. Like climbing a tough, high mountain, one step at a time but always going up...

离岸外包太根深蒂固了。是的，有人试图把一些东西带回美国，但是我相信，就像水往低处流一样，制造业甚至高端技术工作将继续向下流动：哪里的“劳动力”更便宜，即使是低于标准的(过得去的)“劳动力”。
关于巴基斯坦的前景——我(暂时)不同意我们的朋友 @tower9 所做的悲观预测。他对巴基斯坦绝对是出于好意。但我认为一个新的，真正的新世界秩序正在形成。人们期待已久的更大的欧亚大陆的主导/复兴正在发生，在整个历史上，欧亚大陆一直是人类的主导地区。拥有大量人口和自然资源的广袤土地。巴基斯坦在地缘政治上处于有利地位，能够在这场复兴中获益。印度人对巴基斯坦控制的克什米尔地区垂涎三尺是有原因的。但对巴基斯坦来说，理智的领导是必要的。我欢迎任何提供清洁治理、稳定和未来政策的人。虽然总是会有一些“腐败”，因为这在所有第三世界国家都很普遍，但更糟糕的是政治不稳定。所以，不要再喊口号了。不要再有宏伟的“愿景”了。稳定，相对有效的治理。就像攀登一座艰难的高峰，虽然一步一步地走，但总是向上攀登...

FuturePAF -> Meengla
Two issues; considering we all know politics are within the frame work allowed, ”they” should be forcing the other parties to reform and ditch their incompetent leaders in favor of a new generation of competent leaders, outside of the families that have made these parties their play things, and in turn the governance of the areas they dominate.
If the election commission is “disqualifing” IK, the silver lining will be it will force PTI to elevate new, younger leaders, and force them to show their capabilities, while IK is still around. Allowing him to to weed out the incompetent ones, and leave us with a hopefully at least a dozen in an executive committee, giving stability for at least a generation. If all parties had this change it would shift the parties to one that’s compete on competence and a realistic platform.
Secondly, Pakistan can’t keep saying there is Geopolitical value to its location and not push to see some realization of it. Building qt least the Trans-Afghan rail line ASAP will actualize the beginning of the potential, and show Pakistan and Central Asia can get the Talibs to at least open up this corridor, and there were investors willing to fund it. Once the Talibs see some revenue they will guard it for their own sake, regardless of relations with Pakistan short of full blown war.

两个问题：考虑到我们都知道政治是在允许的框架内进行的，“他们”应该迫使其他政党改革，抛弃他们不称职的领导人，转而支持新一代有能力的领导人，而不是那些家族——他们把这些政党当做玩物，并反过来影响他们主导的地区的治理。
如果选举委员会“取消”了伊姆兰·汗的资格，一线希望是，它将迫使 PTI 提拔新的，年轻的领导人，并迫使他们展示自己的能力，同时伊姆兰·汗仍然在任。允许他淘汰那些不称职的人，给我们留下一个希望至少有十几个执行人员的委员会，至少给予一代人的时间里稳定。如果所有政党都能做出这样的改变，那么各政党就会转变为以竞争力和现实平台竞争的政党。
其次，巴基斯坦不能一直说它的地理位置有地缘政治价值，而不去推动这点的实现。尽快修建横贯阿富汗的铁路线，会是实现这一潜力的起点，并表明巴基斯坦和中亚可以让塔利班至少开辟这条走廊，而且有投资者愿意为此提供资金。一旦塔利班看到了一些收益，他们不管与巴基斯坦的关系如何，都会为了自己的利益守护它，除非是爆发全面战争。

renhai -> Abdul Rehman Majeed
BTW. Tesla needs BYD's battery. China's complete supply chain is urgently needed by Tesla.

顺便说一下，特斯拉需要比亚迪的电池。中国完整的供应链是特斯拉迫切需要的。

Redbeanpaste
There is an American academic study out there that uses satellite imagery to see if GDP growth rates reported by governments are correct. Most totalitarian regimes report 20 to 30 percent higher growth rates. The discrepancy was even higher in Chinas case. They stopped actual growth ( except background growth linked to rest of world ) around 2017. They are lying. Google it if you want to check.

美国有一项学术研究，利用卫星地图来检验政府公布的 GDP 增长率是否正确。大多数极权主义政权的经济增长率都要高出20%到30%。在中国，这种差异甚至更大。他们在2017年左右实际增长就停止了(与世界其他地区相关的增长除外)。他们在撒谎。如果你想查看的话，可以谷歌一下。

renhai -> Redbeanpaste
Please don't bring Indian jokes to our modern civilized world. thank you.

请不要把印度笑话带到我们的现代文明世界。谢谢。

Ghazwa-e-Hind -> Redbeanpaste
You sure about that?

你确定可靠吗？

aryobarzan
Electricity generation correlates nicely with a countries development (GDP).. watch this time laps video..may help with this interesting subject.

发电量与国家的发展(GDP)密切相关。观看这个时间段的视频... 可能对这个话题有帮助。


Indos
Labor productivity and better governance I think that makes China better than India and why FDI comes massively to China than India despite both have the same huge market.
India if I am not mistaken also having unstable domestic politics as well with some of their leaders get shot and died. Indira Gandi and Rajif Gandi for example get shot.
In my opinion, better comparing between ASEAN and India

我认为，劳动生产率和更好的治理使中国比印度更好，也是为什么尽管中国和印度拥有同样巨大的市场，但中国吸引的外国直接投资却比印度多得多。
如果我没记错的话，印度国内政局也不稳定，有一些领导人被枪击身亡。比如英迪拉·甘地和拉吉夫·甘地就被枪杀了。
在我看来，东盟和印度之间的比较更合适。

Beidou2020
GDP wise, somewhere in the 1990’s. Mentality wise, somewhere around 2,500 years ago.

从GDP来看，大约在1990年代。从思想来看，大约在2500年前。