[2022-03-20]Reddit评论区：鉴于西方利用其科技公司作为俄乌冲突武器，事后看来，中国阻止西方公司是非常明智的

Ncdlcd
This was a time when western soft power was at a peak and the ills of social media were less known. Blocking western tech companies didn't make sense to most people.
China's government made a difficult choice but ultimately it has paid off. Looking at the ukraine crisis we can see how the american government pretends its tech companies are independent when in reality it uses it as a weapon in foreign policy

【题主】在那个年代，西方的软实力正处于顶峰，社交媒体的弊端还不太为人所知。阻止西方科技公司对大多数人来说没有意义。
中国做出了艰难的选择，但最终得到了回报。看看乌克兰危机，我们可以看到美国政府假装自己的科技公司是独立的，但实际上却把科技公司用作外交政策的一种武器。
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kcwingood
I believe this is because the PRC was targeted with one of the early social media disinformation campaigns. The PRC saw the obvious duplicity of western social media companies that helped dispense disinformation and then refused to help block such attempts in the future. They left China because of their refusal to comply with legal requirements not because China "kicked them out". That's pretty much an admission of guilt: their main purpose in entering the Chinese market was to destabilize Chinese society. If they couldn't accomplish that, even the money meant nothing to them. Of course, in typical western baizuo fashion, they would hide behind so-called "principles", but we all know they have none.

我相信这是因为中国是早期社交媒体虚假信息活动的目标之一。中国看到了西方社交媒体公司明显的双标，这些公司帮助发布虚假信息，然后拒绝在未来帮助阻止此类的企图。它们离开中国是因为他们拒绝遵守当地的法律规定，而不是因为中国“把他们赶出去”。这几乎是一种认罪：他们进入中国市场的主要目的是为了破坏中国社会的稳定。如果他们不能达到这个目的，即使是金钱对他们来说也毫无意义。当然，按照典型的西方白左风格，他们会躲在所谓的“原则”后面，但我们都知道他们没有原则。

manred2026 -> kcwingood
Yea, Facebook also complicit in Rohingya genocide because it was profitable, fucking disgusting

是的，脸书也参与了罗兴亚种族灭绝，因为这是有利可图的，真他妈的恶心

lawncelot -> kcwingood
Reminder that AT&T worked with the NSA to wiretap American phones. A private company was complicit with the American government to spy on Americans.
If you don't think tech companies are working with the US government in some way, then you're naive.

提醒一下，AT&T曾与美国国家安全局合作窃听美国人的电话。一家私营公司与美国政府串通一气，暗中监视美国人。
如果你不认为科技公司正在以某种方式和美国政府合作，那么你就太天真了。

AdrianZensz -> kcwingood
Westoids thanking google for not abiding by China's "censorship" laws, then a few years later proceeded to abide by the US censorship (AKA "patriot" act) laws and its PRISM mass surveillance program on the entire globe...

西方人感激谷歌没有遵守中国的“审查”法律，几年后，谷歌开始遵守美国的审查(所谓“爱国者”法案)法律及其“棱镜”(PRISM)大规模监控计划...

Bertabertha -> AdrianZensz
Lmfao professor Zensz is that you? 🤣🤣🤣

哈哈哈 Zensz教授是你吗？

TserriednichHuiGuo -> Bertabertha
Comrade Zensz.

Zensz同志。

oldie_gosey -> kcwingood
Do you have a links I can read about the non compliance?

你有关于不遵守规定的链接给我看看吗？

astraladventures -> kcwingood
This is quite accurate. MySpace and then fb were operating in china much like they were in other markets. Then fb was used quite extensively to disseminate anti govt and misleading info and rally and organize protests - mainly by western supported groups.

这相当准确。MySpace和随后的FB(脸书)在中国的运营方式与它们在其他市场非常相似。然后FB被相当广泛地用于传播反政府和误导性信息，以及集会和组织抗议活动——主要是由西方支持的团体发起的。

fix_S230-sue_reddit
Don't worry, you'll soon discover in hindsight a lot of China's policies were incredibly smart.

别担心，你很快就会发现，事后看来，中国的很多政策都是非常明智的。

NessX -> fix_S230-sue_reddit
Over building infrastructure at a time when China's labor cost, fuel, and raw material were low is also really smart.

在中国劳动力成本、燃料和原材料都很低的时候，大量修建基础设施也是明智之举。

jz187 -> NessX
With the way the US was printing money it was only a matter of China's forex reserve assets get devalued to nothing. Also with Chinese demographics, it's a foregone conclusion that construction labor will become much more expensive in the future.
Over-building when these inputs are cheap is unprofitable in the same way that borrowing USD at near zero interest rate to finance a stockpile of gold is unprofitable. The unprofitability is purely an artifact of the money illusion.
If you look back 30 years from now, the money spent to build these infrastructure will be worth very little while the physical infrastructure will still be very valuable.
Any country that did not take advantage of low commodity prices and interest rates over the past decade to build out their infrastructure has missed the boat. The cost to build will now be much higher going forward.

鉴于美国印钞的方式，中国的外汇储备资产贬值到零只是(时间)问题。同时，根据中国的人口结构，建筑劳动力在未来将变得更加昂贵，这是一个必然的结论。
当这些投入的价格很便宜时，大量建设是无法盈利的，就像以接近零利率借入美元来储备黄金是无法盈利的一样。这种无利可图纯粹是货币幻觉的产物。
如果你在30年后回过头来看，花在建设这些基础设施上的钱将是非常少的，而有形的基础设施仍然很有价值。
在过去10年，任何一个国家如果没有利用大宗商品低价格和低利率的机会，来建设基础设施，都已经错失良机了。今后的建设成本将会高得多。

Quality_Fun -> jz187
Also with Chinese demographics, it's a foregone conclusion that construction labor will become much more expensive in the future.
if all the talk about demographics are true, then there are worse consequences than more expensive infrastructure.

“同时，根据中国的人口结构，建筑劳动力在未来将变得更加昂贵，这是一个必然的结论。”
如果所有关于人口结构的讨论都是正确的，那么还有比更昂贵的基础设施更糟糕的后果。

jz187 -> Quality_Fun
Construction and agricultural labor will get more expensive in China, this is inevitable due to demographics.
Not sure what are the worse consequences you are referring to though.

中国的建筑业和农业劳动力将变得更加昂贵，这是不可避免的，因为人口结构。
不过，我不确定你所指的更糟糕的后果是什么。

Quality_Fun -> jz187
a reduced workforce. the elderly population growing too large, meaning that the existing workforce would be even more hampered. less economic growth as a result.
i'm not sure if these are the standard collapse stories or if they're finally the things that could stop china or seriously weaken it.

劳动力减少。老年人口增长过快，这意味着现有的劳动力将受到更大的阻碍。因此，经济增长会放缓。
我不确定这是常见的“崩溃”叙述，还是最终可能阻止中国，或者严重削弱它的东西。

ZeEa5KPul -> Quality_Fun
How would the elderly "hamper" the existing workforce? The people retiring from the Chinese workforce now entered it in the '70s/'80s, when China's productivity and education were in the gutter. To give you some perspective, in 1982 the literacy rate in China was 65.5%, meaning more than a third of Chinese adults then couldn't even write their own name. These people aren't retiring with exorbitant pensions and healthcare.
The people entering the Chinese workforce now are incomparably more educated and productive. That's why wages in fields like agriculture and construction are increasing, because there are far more opportunities for higher value work and no one wants to bend his back all day in a rice paddy. That's an inevitable effect of development, not demographics. It would be the same if everyone in China was forever 20 years old.
The answer to this "problem" is the same as it's always been: technology. The reason the West sucks so much ass at infrastructure isn't because their workers are expensive, it's because they have no government - liberal democracy is to government as McDonald's is to food. Nothing can get planned, and if by some miracle a project does, then it's going to be strangled in the cradle by a legion of lawyers.

老年人怎么会“阻碍”现有的劳动力？现在退休的中国劳动力是在70年代/80年代进入劳动力市场的，当时中国的生产率和教育水平处于低谷。给你举例一下，1982年中国的识字率是65.5%，这意味着超过三分之一的中国成年人甚至不会写自己的名字。这些人在退休时并没有高昂的养老金和医疗保险。
现在进入中国劳动力市场的人们，其受教育程度和生产力都更高，这是无可比拟的。这就是为什么农业和建筑业等领域的工资在上涨，因为有更多的机会从事更高价值的工作，没有人愿意整天在稻田里弯着腰。这是发展的必然结果，而不是人口结构。如果中国的每个人都永远是20岁，那情况也会一样。
这个“问题”的答案一如既往：技术。西方国家之所以在基础设施建设方面表现如此糟糕，并不是因为他们的工人昂贵，而是因为他们没有政府——自由民主之于政府，就像麦当劳之于食物一样。没有任何计划，如果一个项目奇迹般地成功了，那么它就会被一群律师扼杀在摇篮里。

TserriednichHuiGuo -> ZeEa5KPul
The answer to this "problem" is the same as it's always been: technology.
Exactly, eventually jobs that people did in the past like all physical labour but no longer want to do now because of greater expectations will be automated.
This not only ensures that society can do stuff they want but also ensures production soars.
Under Socialism we will have material abundance.

“这个‘问题’的答案一如既往：技术”
没错，最终人们过去做的工作，如所有的体力劳动，但由于有更大的期望，现在不再愿意做了，这些工作将被自动化。
这不仅确保了社会可以做他们想做的事情，而且也确保了产量的飙升。
在社会主义下，我们将拥有丰富的物质。

Quality_Fun -> TserriednichHuiGuo
not all jobs can be automated. it also has other effects that may require the restructuring of society such as with ubi or similar concepts.

并不是所有的工作都可以自动化。它还有其他影响，可能需要社会的重组，如使用ubi或类似的概念。

jorvis_nonof -> Quality_Fun
Most jobs can be automated. A legion of construction workers may currently be the most cost-effective way to build something today, but if the price of their labour is high enough, many forms of automation start making financial sense, from what we see today with various forms of construction equipment, up to and including full humanoid robots.

大多数工作都可以自动化。大量的建筑工人目前可能是最具成本效益的建造方式，但是如果他们的劳动力价格足够高，许多形式的自动化就开始具有经济意义，从我们今天看到的各种形式的建筑设备，到包括完整的仿人机器人。

TheRedStarWillRise -> Quality_Fun
i'm not sure if these are the standard collapse stories or if they're finally the things that could stop china or seriously weaken it.
Nothing of that sort, those are worthless fear mongering by the media. Take a look at this research paper:
China's low fertility may not hinder furture prosperity | The Proceedings of the Natural Academy of Sciences

“我不确定这是常见的“崩溃”叙述，还是最终可能阻止中国，或者严重削弱它的东西”
没那回事，那些都是媒体散布的毫无价值的恐惧宣传。看看这篇研究论文：
中国的低生育率或许不会阻碍未来的繁荣 |《自然科学院院报》

FatDalek -> NessX
Indeed. Even some western sources point out buying the raw materials now before India takes off with industrialisation was a good idea, as prices will likely go up if India starts going on a building binge as well. Of course, this was more a decade ago and India hasn't done much, but still its a good idea because eventually other industrialising countries will need to build up their infrastructure.

的确如此。就连一些西方消息人士也指出，在印度实现工业化之前，现在就购买原材料是个好主意，因为如果印度也开始大举建设，价格可能会上涨。当然，这是十多年前的事情了，而印度并没有做多少，但这仍然是一个好主意，因为最终其他工业化国家将需要建设他们的基础设施。

Altruistic_Astronaut -> FatDalek
It's given China soft power. Leftist and other anti-imperialist are given examples of hie building within leads to prosperity for the people. This is at a time of heightened escalations between the US and China.

这给了中国软实力。让左派和其他反帝国主义者看到了“在内部建设从而造福人民”的例子。此时正是中美关系加剧升级之际。

Nebulous_Desire -> Altruistic_Astronaut
My main fear is that the USA realises it has lost economically, cyber etc. and throws a military tantrum.

我主要担心的是，美国意识到自己在经济、网络等方面已经失败了，然后用军事力量耍性子。

TserriednichHuiGuo -> Nebulous_Desire
Unless it's nuclear they won't be able to do much against China.
It's why proxy wars are a thing between peer powers.

除非是核武器，否则他们无法对中国采取什么行动。
这就是为什么代理战争是对等大国之间的事情。

jorvis_nonof -> TserriednichHuiGuo
They could go on a military rampage to plunder non-nuclear states, starting with their Latin American neighbours.

他们可以从拉丁美洲的邻国开始，对无核国家进行军事掠夺。

fuukingai -> NessX
Wow, never saw it in that light, now it all makes sense. Prices for raw material will only go up

哇，我从来没有从这个角度想过，现在一切都说得通了。原材料的价格只会上涨

limitz -> NessX
Never thought of it this way - interesting outlook.

从来没有这样想过，有趣的观点。

Quality_Fun -> NessX
unfortunately, your comment sounds sarcastic and scathing.

遗憾的是，你的评论听起来像讽刺和挖苦。

NessX -> Quality_Fun
Nah I mean it, there a bunch of policy papers about this on China's official policy site in English.

不，我是说真的，在中国官方英文政策网站上有一大堆关于这点的政策文件。

ArK047 -> fix_S230-sue_reddit
Sort of incredible the foresight they have when the rest of the world only recognizes it in hindsight. This is what iterative, scientific planning can do.

当其他国家只是在事后才意识到这情况时，他们的远见卓识有点让人难以置信。这就是迭代的、科学的规划所能做到的。

Quality_Fun -> fix_S230-sue_reddit
"ghost" cities being one of them.

“鬼城”就是其中之一。

lawncelot
USA social media companies before: We're a bastion a free speech, and we will never violate our principles. Don't be evil.
USA social media companies now: Well, actually we're a private company so we don't have to legally stick with maintaining free speech. So we're gonna ban everything that doesn't agree with US propaganda.

美国社交媒体公司之前：我们是言论自由的堡垒，我们永远不会违反我们的原则。不作恶。
美国社交媒体公司现在：好吧，其实我们是一家私营公司，所以我们不需要在法律上坚持言论自由。所以我们要禁止一切与美国宣传不符的东西。

SQQQ -> lawncelot
but posting messages to encourage violence against Russians is a free speech worthy of protection.

但是发布鼓励对俄罗斯人使用暴力的信息，是一种值得保护的言论自由。

eastern_lightning -> lawncelot
Also brain-dead Redditors celebrating "anonymous" hacking into Russian agencies. Lmao why is it we only hear about anonymous when they are doing something aligned with the US states department?

还有脑残的Reddit用户在庆祝“匿名者黑客组织”入侵俄罗斯机构。笑死我了，为什么我们只有在匿名者黑客组织做与美国国务院一致的事情时，才能听到他们？

TserriednichHuiGuo -> eastern_lightning
Probably cause they're the fbi.

可能因为他们就是联邦调查局(FBI)的。

Iliius -> TserriednichHuiGuo
anonymous was actually 4chan. or at least originated from there. very pro american nonetheless

匿名者黑客组织实际上是4chan。或者至少起源于那里。但非常亲美

Igennem
Probably one of the smartest geopolitical/economic policies of our lifetime.

这也许是我们一生中最明智的地缘政治/经济政策之一了。

rektogre1280 -> Igennem
Exactly! That was a "Kill two birds with one stone" move.
By blocking the western media and their tech companies, China could not only block the western influence and disinformation on its citizens but also could give enough space and opportunity for domestic tech giants like Tencent, Alibaba, Baidu, and many others to rise.

正是如此！这是“一箭双雕”之举。
通过阻止西方媒体和他们的科技公司，中国不仅可以阻止西方对其公民的影响和虚假信息，还可以给国内科技巨头腾讯、阿里巴巴、百度和其他许多公司提供足够的发展空间和机会。

Nebulous_Desire -> rektogre1280
Not as much blocking as not allowing them to break the law. If they comformes there'd be no problem. Right?

与其说是阻止，不如说是不允许他们违反法律。如果他们遵守，就没有问题了。对吧?

Igennem -> Nebulous_Desire
Precisely. All Western firms needed to do was comply with Chinese law, including protecting Chinese data and promoting public safety.
Fail to comply with the law, don't get to operate.

没错，所有西方公司需要做的就是遵守中国的法律，包括保护中国的数据和促进公共安全。
不遵守法律，就别想经营。

likechanel
China has entire university departments dedicated to studying why the USSR failed. We need to thank the brave Russians for teaching us so much. A single Gorbachev Pizza Hut commercial is all the hindsight we need.

中国有整个大学部门专门研究苏联失败的原因。我们需要感谢勇敢的俄罗斯人教会了我们这么多。一个戈尔巴乔夫的必胜客商业广告，就是我们所需要的后见之明。

Dari93 -> likechanel
Are there any papers published? I don't know mandarin but I could use the translator.

有发表什么论文吗？我不懂中文，但我可以用翻译工具。

likechanel -> Dari93
See publications by the China Research Society of the USSR and East European History of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences

参见 苏联中国研究学会 和 中国社会科学院东欧史 的出版物

ArmyStud4Fun -> likechanel
What have they pinpointed?
I know many of the reasons, but Im curious as to what Chinese academics (people way smarter than myself) have to say on the matter.

他们明确地指出了什么？
我知道其中的很多原因，但是我很好奇中国学者(比我聪明得多的人)在这个问题上有什么看法。

SonOfTheDragon101
I am 40 years old. My entire life time has been about seeing in hindsight just how incredibly smart and forward looking the CPC had been. I was a brainwashed child once. Everything that has happened since my childhood has confirmed to me...wow...the CPC leadership was right all along - shutting out Western propaganda, building China's own alternative and all strategic sectors of the economy. They were protecting China's national interests even when I was too young to realise it. In the past two weeks, I've read Indians and Arabs looking at the Russia-Ukraine crisis, and upon seeing the blatant double standards and horrifying power of the US to wreck other countries, Indians and Muslims are saying China was right and they wished their governments were as forward looking. As a matter of fact, I believe in a multipolar world. I do hope India and the Muslim world would build their own alternatives, so their people will never be digitally colonised by the US (or anyone else)

我今年已经40岁了。我的一生都是在事后才看到中共有多么明智和前瞻性。我曾经是个被洗脑的孩子。但从我童年起发生的所有事情都向我证实了... 哇... 中共的领导一直是正确的——拒绝西方的宣传，建立中国自己的替代方案和所有的经济战略部门。即使在我还太小没有意识到这一点，他们就在保护中国的国家利益。
在过去的两周里，我读到了印度人和阿拉伯人对俄罗斯-乌克兰危机的看法，在看到美国公然的双重标准和摧毁其他国家的可怕力量之后，印度人和穆斯林都在说中国(的做法)是正确的，他们希望他们的政府也有同样的前瞻性。事实上，我相信世界是多极的。我确实希望印度和穆斯林世界能够建立自己的替代方案，这样他们的人民就永远不会被美国(或其他任何国家)数字化殖民了。

wunderwerks -> SonOfTheDragon101
I'm 40 as well and I just looked up the GDP of the US and China in 1950 vs 2020. The US has a GDP just under 10 times larger in 40 years.
China has a GDP that has grown 88.5 TIMES larger.
I remember reading a Nat Geo magazine about China and its pollution being so bad. That China is nowhere to be seen with the futuristic China we see today. It's amazing.

我也40岁了，我刚刚查了1950年和2020年美国和中国的GDP。美国的 GDP 在40年内增长了近10倍。
中国的 GDP 增长了88.5倍。
我记得以前在《国家地理》杂志上读到过一篇关于中国及其污染严重的文章。那时中国和我们当今看到的未来式的中国天差地别。太惊人了。

elBottoo -> wunderwerks
This right here is all we need to know.
Clearly, the superior governance. No need to lie, twist, spin or anything. The actual reality, a fact of itself, speaks volumes and more than 1 million words.

我们只需要明白这点。
显然，优越的治理。没有必要撒谎，扭曲，编造或之类的。真实的现实本身就是事实，胜过千言万语。

stefanthehorse -> SonOfTheDragon101
I am 40 years old. My entire life time has been about seeing in hindsight just how incredibly smart and forward looking the CPC had been.
Right? It never ceases to amaze me. Can we just put the Chinese in charge and call it a day? I'm fucking done with our utter joke of leadership. We deserve better.

“我今年已经40岁了。我的一生都是在事后才看到中共有多么明智和前瞻性”
是吧？这总是让我感到惊叹。我们能不能任命中国人来领导，就这样？我他妈的受够了我们完全就是笑话的领导层。我们应该要有更好的领导层。

TserriednichHuiGuo -> stefanthehorse
CPC led humanity.

中共引领人类。

wkkkky
Pure genius. And to think that I was against it…

纯粹的天才。一想到我曾经反对...

simian_ninja
I've deactivated my Facebook and I highly doubt I'll return to the platform. That move of allowing hatred against Russians really turned me off and showed me there true colours.
China was absolutely right to have those companies denied. People seem to think of that "Great Firewall" as a means of keeping people complacent and ignorant but I'm honestly starting to look at it like "The Great Wall" - it's there to keep the marauders out.

我已经关闭了我的脸书，我基本不会回到这个平台了。那个允许仇恨俄罗斯人的举动真的让我很反感，让我看到了真实的一面。
中国拒绝这些公司是绝对正确的。人们似乎认为防火墙是让人们保持自满和无知的一种方式，但我开始真诚地把它看作是“长城”——它是用来阻挡掠夺者的。

Altruistic_Astronaut -> simian_ninja
I remember someone comparing it to an airport. The purpose is to filter out the bad or dangerous things while letting in those who follow the rules.

我记得有人把它比作机场。其目的是过滤掉坏的或危险的东西，同时让那些遵守规则的进来。

WeilaiHope
Yep, this is the real reason, to stop foreign bullshit.

是的，这就是真正的原因，为了阻止外国的胡说八道。

maomao05
China's governance is long term planning

中国的治理是长期的规划

ChineseGoldenAge
If China hadn't, Facebook and Google would've incite violence, rebellion, and pro-Western propaganda every single day.
This would've put the then vulnerable 1.4 billion people of China in jeopardy.

如果中国不这样做，脸书和谷歌每天都会煽动暴力、叛乱和亲西方的宣传。
这将使当时脆弱的14亿中国人处于危险之中。

EternalObi
It really comes down to the lack of trust China has for the west. And this history goes way back to the Qing dynasty. I am really glad that China have this history with the west. Its really a valuable lesson that will benefit China through generations.

归根结底，这实际上是因为中国对西方缺乏信任。这段历史可以追溯到清朝。我真的很高兴中国和西方有这段历史。这确实是一个宝贵的教训，将让中国世代受益。

zerodarkthirty69
We're seeing now how in times of war, the West is able to mobilize its monopolistic control of social media platforms to shut down opposing war narratives. I believe its the first time we've really seen this power in action. Free speech is allowed during peacetime, but when the empire's existence is threatened, the hammer comes down. That's why I've always found the argument that China's not doing a good enough job communicating on Western media to be a fallacious one. They can and will shut you down whenever they want. As long as you use the West's tech platforms, you're on borrowed time.

我们现在看到的是，在战争时期，西方国家能够动员其对社交媒体平台的垄断控制，来封锁对立的战争叙事。我相信这是我们第一次真正看到这种力量在发挥作用。在和平时期，言论自由是被允许的，但是当帝国的存在受到威胁时，铁锤就会落下。这就是为什么我一直认为“中国没有在西方媒体上做好传达工作”的说法是错误的。他们可以而且会随时关闭你的频道。只要你使用西方的技术平台，你就是在浪费时间。

True_Virus
Data sovereignty is a real deal and I believe it is going to be paid more attention in the years to come.

数据主权是一个实实在在的问题，我相信在未来的岁月里它会得到更多的关注。

ayamrice
agree, their foresight is really far ahead, probably measured in decades, rather than months or years, for the true intent and effects to surface.
this is one of the better example of "prevention is better than cure"

同意，他们的远见卓识确实远远超前，可能要用几十年，而不是几个月或几年，真正的目的和效果才会浮出水面。
这是”预防胜于治疗”的一个很好的例子。

dobagela
not just this decision, but so many other decisions. the bullet trains are losing money technically speaking which they knew they would but in reality connecting Chinese all over the country can only reap far more economic gain by letting trade flourish. This is what smart central planning is capable of. Americans think they are free but imagine them having bullet trains and then taking it away. The outrage that would ensue. they don't know what freedoms they are missing by having a centralized capable government that could never come about through democracy, at last not the sham of a democracy they have now

不仅仅是这个决定，还有很多其他的决定。从技术上讲，子弹头列车在亏损，他们知道这情况，但实际上，将全国各地的中国人联系起来，只有让贸易蓬勃发展，才能获得更多的经济收益。这就是明智的中央计划所能做到的。美国人认为他们是自由的，但是想象一下，他们拥有高速列车，然后又把它拿走。随之而来的会是愤怒。他们不会知道拥有一个永远不会通过“民主”（至少不会通过他们现在的那种虚伪的民主）产生的集权、有能力的政府，能让他们失去啥自由。

jjbanana -> dobagela
upholding a world military hegemony is also "losing money technically speaking"

维护世界军事霸权也是“从技术上讲在亏损”

DoktorSmrt -> jjbanana
Yeah, high speed rail costs the Chinese $10 per year per person, while the US military costs Americans $7 per day per person, and they have the audacity to say how HSR is “hemorrhaging” money 🤡

是的，高铁花费中国人平均每人每年10美元，而美国军队花费美国人平均每人每天7美元，他们居然还敢说高铁“大出血”？

xerotul -> dobagela
The social benefit is unmeasurable.

社会效益是无法估量的。

Bertabertha
Just to show China playing 5D chess and the politicians here play checkers.

只是为了显示中国在下5D国际象棋，而这里的政客们在下跳棋。

Separate_Cherry7361
China is 5 parallel universes ahead of the US Goons

中国领先美国暴徒5个平行宇宙

diagrammatiks
the west can't understand ghost towns because they can't imagine the thought of building more then you need for the future.

西方人无法理解鬼城，因为他们无法想象为未来建造更多东西的想法。

balinjerica -> diagrammatiks
They do understand ghost towns... Not as a scheme to take care of future generations but as an investment vehicle.
That's why there are more empty homes in the west than in China per capita, but also only 30% of millennials have a home in the west while 70% of Chinese millennials have one.

他们确实明白鬼城... 不是作为一种照顾子孙后代的计划，而是作为一种投资工具。
这就是为什么西方的人均空置房比中国多，但也只有30%的千禧一代在西方有房，而70%的中国千禧一代有房。

lemontree266
Even some Indian youtubers are saying it’s smart for India to own their own tech space.
The last thing India wants is USA engineering a hot war on India and between its neighbours.

甚至一些印度YouTube播主也认为，印度拥有自己的科技领域是明智之举。
印度最不想看到的就是美$国在印度及其邻国之间挑起一场热战。

fix_S230-sue_reddit
They understood exactly what Google and Facebook were doing. China wasn't stupid, they allowed the western companies in to see what they were up to, then figured out how to regulate them. This is literally exactly the same policy China does for almost any new tech.
Google and FB left willingly cause they could not spread propaganda easily under the new regulations. China never banned them.

他们完全明白谷歌和脸书在做什么。中国并不傻，他们允许西方公司进入中国，看看他们在做什么，然后想办法监管。这和中国对几乎所有新技术采取的方针完全一样。
谷歌和脸书是自愿离开的，因为在新规定下他们无法轻易地进行宣传。中国从来没有禁止过他们。

NessX -> fix_S230-sue_reddit
Exactly, unlike what the western media claims China never kicked out any western companies, they willing left!

正是如此，不像西方媒体所说的那样，中国从来没有赶走过任何西方公司，他们是自愿离开的！

Portablela
Thinking that you can outcompete or even share your side of the story on enemy-controlled platforms is naïve at best, as the Russians are quickly finding out.

如果你认为自己能够在敌人控制的平台上战胜竞争对手，甚至分享你的叙事，那就太天真了，俄罗斯人很快就发现了。

TserriednichHuiGuo -> Portablela
In a previous comment of mine I pointed out how RT would inevitably be banned in the west, didn't expect it to happen this quick I suppose.

在我之前的的评论中，我就说过RT将不可避免地被西方禁止，但我没想到会发生得这么快。

Blanksheet911
I am extremely impressed by the intelligence of the chineses, really they are unbeatable.

中国人的智慧让我印象深刻，他们确实无与伦比。

Elles_D -> Blanksheet911
never underestimate the force of evil behind us imperialism. it's time for the major forces of eurasia to ally up, that's the only way. preferably ally up with south america and the middle east as well.

永远不要低估美帝国主义背后的邪恶势力。现在是欧亚大陆的主要力量联合起来的时候了，这是唯一的办法。最好还要联合南美和中东。

Asteria1983
Chinese playing 4D go

中国人玩4D围棋

BOKEH_BALLS
They are a dialectical materialist society. If you take an objective look at US history and take into account their psychopathic geopolitical behavior, building out your own network infrastructure is the obvious choice.

他们是辩证唯物主义的社会。如果你客观地看待美国的历史，并考虑到他们的精神错乱的地缘政治行为，建立自己的网络基础设施是显而易见的选择。

leftrightmonkman
I see the move, not so much as smart in all honesty, but in using absolute common sense in ruling a country if you aim is to not be an empire like all classical empires (steal, conquer, rape -- all short term benefits that all incrementally lead to a faster and faster decline) but instead take the long view (imo this is not particularly smart -- but in comparison with the West (1780ish-2022) it might be called genuis).
Fuck. A country that has a plan that will take decades -- imagine the benefits. Or better: look at China (it obv. also has downsides, but in comparison to our Western political shitfest it's truly superior).

我认为此举，与其说是聪明，不如说是在用绝对的常识来管理国家，如果你的目标不是成为一个像所有传统帝国那样的帝国(偷窃、征服、强奸，所有这些短期利益都会逐渐导致越来越高的衰落) ，而是着眼于长远（在我看来，这并不是特别聪明，但与西方(1780-2022)相比，这或许可以被称为天才之举）。
他妈的。一个国家有一项需要几十年才能实现的计划——想象一下这个益处吧。或者更好的：看看中国。（很明显，它也有缺点，但与我们西方的政治垃圾相比，确实更优越）

A2077
"western companies"? It's just social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter.

“西方公司”？只是像脸书和推特这样的社交媒体平台。

jaded-tired -> A2077
It's just social media platforms
Sure it's "just" social media platforms because companies like Apple, Amazon and Uber don't exist. You know the company with the US Army officer as one of its board of director, the company that has been known for installing spywares and handing the data to the the government , AND the company that listens into people's conversation through their speakers?

“只是社交媒体平台”
当然，“只是”社交媒体平台，因为像苹果、亚马逊和优步这样的公司根本不存在。那你知道，董事会成员之一是美国陆军军官的那家公司，以安装间谍软件并将数据交给政府而闻名的那家公司，还有通过扬声器窃听人们谈话的那家公司吗？

TserriednichHuiGuo
In hindsight Vietnam should have used this policy as well.

事后看来，越南也应该采取这种政策。

Magiu5 -> TserriednichHuiGuo
Vietnam censors just as much. Vietnam doesn't have big enough population and tech ability compared with china. It doesnt have the same leverages that china has.
Also, from what I remember Facebook and google etc censor based on what the government tells them to. They are just virtue signaling for china since it's usa adversary while at the same time they are trying to court Vietnam so it's completely double standards. Its like censorship is bad in china but Vietnam censorship? Great! Let's be friends. Its hilarious how dumb and hypocritical the American public is.

越南的审查也是如此。与中国相比，越南没有足够的人口和技术能力。它没有中国那样的影响力。
而且，据我所知，脸书和谷歌等网站的审查都是基于政府的要求。他们只是在向中国发出道德信号（译注：以某种言论显示自己站在道义一方），因为它是美国的对手，同时他们还试图讨好越南，所以这是完全的双重标准。这就像“中国的审查是糟糕的，而越南的审查？太棒了！让我们做朋友吧”，美国公众是多么的愚蠢和虚伪，真是搞笑。

ashleycheng
It’s actually more about economic protection. Without google in China, Baidu flourished, and became a giant. Without Facebook in China, WeChat and TikTok thrived and ready to take on the world. It was a very easy decision from economic standpoint. Building up China’s own capital giants requires protection, so they can grow up safely. Just like humans protect their young before releasing them to the world.

这实际上更多的是关于经济保护。谷歌没有在中国，百度蓬勃发展，并成为了大型企业。脸书没有在中国，微信和TikTok蓬勃发展，并准备好向世界发起挑战。从经济角度来看，这是一个非常容易的决定。打造中国自己的资本大型企业需要保护，这样它们才能安全成长。就像人类在把他们的孩子放到世界之前，会保护他们一样。

UnableSwing
100 percent this, it was never about censorship but about national and economic security. china has produced domestic champions that even if restrictions on american social media were lifted no one would use it anyways. what we've seen from recent events is that american tech giants work hand in hand with the US government. every country that isn't in line with america would be wise to create their own alternatives

确实很明智，这从来就无关审查，而是关于国家和经济安全。中国已经产生了国内的龙头企业，即使取消了美国社交媒体的限制，也没有人会使用它。我们从最近的事件中已经看到了，美国科技巨头与美国政府的亲密合作。每个不与美国一致的国家，都应该明智地创造自己的替代方案。