[2022-03-11]Reddit评论区：万事达卡和Visa停止在俄业务后，俄多家银行纷纷转向中国银联系统

hairynutzndik
Man china hit the jackpot with this shit show. 

我的天，中国在这场闹剧里中了大奖。

bobbing-downstream -> hairynutzndik
My thoughts exactly—China is the big winner here. China gets to help Russia out in a time of need in exchange for putting Russia under its thumb via loaning them RMB, scooping up a bunch of Russian assets at 50% off, and (likely) locking in some strategic belt & road options. Almost every other country is getting drained by this invasion while China gets stronger simply by doing nothing. The longer it lasts the better for China.

我的想法正是如此——中国是这里的大赢家。在俄罗斯需要帮助的时候，中国可以通过借给俄罗斯人民币，以超过50%的折扣收购俄罗斯的资产，以及(可能)锁定一些“一带一路”战略选择，来帮助俄罗斯摆脱困境。几乎所有其他国家都因这场入侵而精疲力尽，而中国却只是因为无为而变得更加强大。拖的时间越长，对中国越有利。

_MojoCaesar -> bobbing-downstream
It’s almost.. as if …this was the plan all along.

这几乎... 就像... 一直以来的计划。

LeftDave -> bobbing-downstream
At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if China outright annexes Siberia citing a collapse of the Russian state and needing to protect itself from spillover violence.

按照这种速度，如果中国以俄罗斯崩溃为由，直接吞并西伯利亚并且需要保护自己免受暴力蔓延的影响，我也不会感到惊讶。

arbiter12 -> LeftDave
You guys really don't understand china....
They had 5000years to conquer the whole of asia and didn't. The chinese goal is more power, not more territory. This isn't an EU4 map painting competition...
If you conquer a place, you need to pay for occupying it and ransack it fast enough to make the occupation worthwhile. If you CONTROL a place, it does business with you, creates profit, and pays for itself.
Who the fuck wants to annex Siberia when you can get the oil/mining concession without stepping there....?

你们真的不了解中国啊...
他们有五千年的时间征服整个亚洲，但他们没有。中国的目标是更强大，而不是更多的领土。这不是《欧陆风云4》的地图绘制比赛...
如果你征服了一个地方，你需要为占领它买单，并迅速将它洗劫一空，让占领变得有价值。如果你控制了一个地方，它就会和你做生意，创造利润，并为它自己买单。
当你不用踏足西伯利亚就能获得石油/采矿特许权的时候，谁他妈还想吞并西伯利亚呢....？

LeftDave -> arbiter12
They had 5000years to conquer the whole of asia and
Did. China was everything from Afghanistan to the Pacific and Mongolia to Indonesia at it's height.

“他们有五千年的时间征服整个亚洲”
做了。从阿富汗到太平洋，从蒙古到印度尼西亚，中国在鼎盛时期无所不包。

FarrisAT -> LeftDave
Ummm not really
China at it's peak ruled by Han Chinese was mid-Tang when it controlled much of it's modern territory including Korea and Vietnam and some of Mongolia.
Qing controlled more, but it's grip on Vietnam and Korea was far looser.

嗯... 不完全是
中国在汉族统治的鼎盛时期是中唐时期，当时中国控制了包括朝鲜、越南和部分蒙古在内的大部分现代领土。
清朝控制得更多，但是对越南和朝鲜的控制要松得多。

Puzzleheaded-Ad319 -> arbiter12
Do you really understand China? They DID want to conquer the whole Asia but they COULN’T because they were so suck and they had civil war all the time. Look at the history again. During their peak time, they conquered a lot. But yeah, I don’t think they want to annex Siberia as well

你真的了解中国吗？他们确实想征服整个亚洲，但是他们没能做到，因为太逊了，而且他们一直在打内战。再看看历史。在他们的巅峰时期，他们征服了很多地方。但是，是的，我不认为他们也想吞并西伯利亚。

612k -> LeftDave
If anything I think they'd vassalize Siberia instead of annexing it, but I wouldn't be shocked if they took some of Russia's territory. Russia's entire military is engaged in the west, there is literally nothing Putin could do about it other than start a nuclear war.

要说真有什么的话，我认为他们会把西伯利亚附属化而不是吞并它，但是如果他们夺取了俄罗斯的一些领土，我也不会感到惊讶。俄罗斯的整个军队都在西方，普京除了发动一场核战争，几乎别无他法。

LeftDave -> 612k
They won't invade outright. That's be bad for their business deals with the West. They 'can't' offer direct aid to Russia as that'd violate sanctions. So they'll prop up the economy in ways that are under Chinese control. Tying debit and credit to China after MasterCard and Visa pulled out is step 1. Next they'll buyout struggling firms to 'save jobs'. They'll keep on like this, increasing control as time goes on. It'll be a Chinese vassal.

他们不会直接入侵。这不利于他们与西方的商业交易。他们“不能”向俄罗斯提供直接援助，因为这违反了制裁。因此，他们将以中国控制的方式支撑经济。在万事达和Visa退出后，将借记卡和信用卡与中国捆绑是第一步。接下来，他们将收购陷入困境的公司，以“保住就业”。他们会继续这样，随着时间的推移加强控制力。它将成为中国的附庸。

americansherlock201 -> bobbing-downstream
The one thing China loses here though is Taiwan. They are seeing how the world is reacting to Russia invading Ukrainian under and seeing how poorly it is working out for Russia. This likely puts any thoughts of making a move on Taiwan on ice for awhile

不过，中国会在这里失去的一个东西是台湾。他们看到了世界对俄罗斯入侵乌克兰的反应，也看到了俄罗斯的处境有多糟糕。这可能会暂时搁置任何对台湾采取行动的想法。

arlitoma -> americansherlock201
The world boycotted Russia because it's not a huge sacrifice. The world won't do shit to China

世界联合抵制俄罗斯，因为这不是一个巨大的牺牲，但世界不会对中国做任何事情。

FINALAVENUE -> arlitoma
Not a huge sacrifice?
Russia supplies 60% of German gas needs and 10% of global needs, I think that’s a rather large sacrifice whose repercussions will start to show soon

不是一个巨大的牺牲？
俄罗斯供应德国60%的天然气需求和全球10%的需求，我认为这是一个相当大的牺牲，其影响将很快开始显现。

americansherlock201 -> arlitoma
Russia spent the last 20 years building economic ties to the west thinking it would insulate them from retaliation in the event of attacking a neighboring nation. The west basically said fuck you and cut all ties within a week.
China has even more to lose economically if the west did the same. And seeing people actually defend their home and democracy will give them pause. They will continue their long game

过去20年里，俄罗斯一直在与西方建立经济联系，认为这样可以在他们攻击邻国的时候免遭报复。西方基本上是说去你妈的，然后在一周之内切断所有联系。
如果西方也这样做，中国在经济上将遭受更大损失。看到人们真正捍卫自己的家园和民主，会让他们暂停下来。他们将继续他们的长期游戏。

FarrisAT -> americansherlock201
China invading Taiwan would make this Ukraine war look like a joke.
You'd have the entire Chinese armada of 600+ warships, 2000+ aircraft, 40,000 missiles, 2.5 million soldiers. All attacking at once in the hopes of taking Taiwan before the USA and Japan could intervene

中国对台湾(地区)的行动，会让这场乌克兰战争看起来像个笑话。
你会看到整个中国舰队，600多艘军舰，2000多架飞机，4万枚导弹，250万士兵。所有的攻击同时进行，为了在美国和日本介入之前拿下台湾。

ric2b -> americansherlock201
Not so sure about that. The world seems to be more dependent on oil and gas
Guess who controls or has influence over most of the oil and gas production in the world. Hint: It's not Russia.
They will use their own banking system and it’s that simple
Yes, because they have no other option.

这一点不太确定。世界似乎更加依赖石油和天然气。
猜猜谁控制或影响了世界上大部分的石油和天然气生产。提示：不是俄罗斯。
他们将使用自己的银行系统，就是这么简单，
是的，因为他们别无选择。

hopefultraveller1 -> ric2b
Guess who controls or has influence over most of the oil and gas production in the world. Hint: It's not Russia.
Wrong. Russia and Saudi Arabia are the largest players in O&G with the lowest breakevens. Russia actually has a lower breakeven price to balance their budge than the Sauds. Try again.

“猜猜谁控制或影响了世界上大部分的石油和天然气生产。提示：不是俄罗斯”
不对。俄罗斯和沙特阿拉伯是O&G(石油天然气)的最大参与者，盈亏平衡点最低。俄罗斯实际上比沙特有更低的盈亏平衡价来平衡他们的预算。再想想吧。

ric2b -> hopefultraveller1
The US produces more O&G than Russia and the Saudi's are much closer to the US than Russia, you try again.

美国的石油天然气产量比俄罗斯高，而且沙特阿拉伯与美国的关系比俄罗斯近得多，你再想想。

No_Dragonfly2672
It's more like the entire Western world being outsmarted by the Chinese.
They thought they put a sanction on Russia, but they just sanctioned themselves...

这更像是整个西方世界都被中国人智胜了。
他们以为他们制裁了俄罗斯，但他们只是制裁了自己...

deep_in_stonks -> No_Dragonfly2672
Because sanctions gone from practical to emotional and irrational

因为制裁从现实变成了情绪化和非理性

FruxyFriday -> No_Dragonfly2672
How stupid is the western world?
What we are seeing now is the beginning of the decade long process of the USD losing reserve currency status.

西方世界有多愚蠢？
我们现在看到的是，美元失去十年储备货币地位的过程的开始。

no_simpsons -> FruxyFriday
Yup. Russia may have shot themselves in the foot, but at least they are allied with China. This is the turning point.

是的。俄罗斯也许是搬起石头砸自己的脚，但至少他们和中国结盟。这是一个转折点。

kontekisuto -> no_simpsons
He just had no other choice. Russia is now a Chinese vassal state. Basically.

他只是别无选择。俄罗斯现在基本上是一个中国的附庸国。

Still_Lobster_8428
China has now built a second economic block that could see this work independent of the US sphere of influence.
We now have BRICS countries and the Chinese belt and road to contend with, and that opens up a huge part of the world market to an alternative system.

中国现在已经建立了第二个经济区块，可以看到这项工作独立于美国的势力范围之外。
我们现在要抗衡的有金砖国家和中国的一带一路，这为替代系统打开了很大一部分世界市场。

Law_And_Politics
There is no doubt we are encouraging other countries to develop a competitor financial system to the west.

毫无疑问，我们正在鼓励其它国家建立一个与西方竞争的金融体系。

tcwtcw -> Law_And_Politics
Yes. Because China hasn’t really thought about this until now right?

是的。因为中国直到现在才真正考虑这个问题，对吧？

Law_And_Politics -> tcwtcw
They've been thinking about it since 2014 at least.

他们至少从2014年就开始考虑这个问题了。

TDMarsh
The damage to SWIFT has been done. Once everything is set up, Russia and its partners (Russia, China, Iran, India, UAE, etc.) will start to demand payment for Oil/Oil Products via their SWIFT alternative and eventually in a currency other than USD.

已经对SWIFT造成伤害了。一旦一切准备就绪，俄罗斯及其合作伙伴(俄罗斯、中国、伊朗、印度、阿联酋等)将开始通过他们的SWIFT替代方案来支付石油/石油产品费用，并最终使用美元以外的货币。

tragiktimes -> TDMarsh
I don't see India putting themselves in a situation where there economically reliant on China.

我不认为印度会把自己置于经济依赖于中国的境地。

pepsirichard62 -> tragiktimes
China is constantly threatening war on India. I don’t know why thinks this situation automatically makes them buddies.

中国不断威胁要对印度开战，我不知道为什么会觉得这种情况会自动让他们成为朋友。

U2Brockus -> TDMarsh
Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, Syria, OPEC. All sanctioned and sanction prone countries will trade there

委内瑞拉、古巴、朝鲜、叙利亚、石油输出国组织，所有受到制裁和易受制裁的国家都将在那里进行贸易。

TDMarsh -> U2Brockus
Yes, it wont be overnight but it will be significant. The settlement currency they choose is what I'm most curious about.

是的，这不会在一夜之间发生，但它意义重大。他们选择的结算货币是我最好奇的。

Kimishiranai39 -> TDMarsh
Probably CNY, gold or currency swaps. China is probably their largest trading partner by volume, they supply the Chinese economy with commodities and China supplies them with manufactured goods.

可能是人民币、黄金或货币互换。按交易量计算，中国可能是他们最大的贸易伙伴，他们向中国经济提供大宗商品，而中国向他们提供制成品。

jayteerp -> TDMarsh
The only way that can kill the USD is if one those currencies is backed by some kind of commodity. E.g. gold

唯一能杀死美元的方法，就是这些货币得到某种大宗商品的支持。比如黄金。

fishy247 -> jayteerp
Uhhhhh, is oil not a commodity anymore?

呃，石油不再是一种大宗商品了吗？

yogeshkumar4 -> jayteerp
Gold backed currencies are off the table, it greatly restricts economic expansion. We need something better

黄金支持的货币不会考虑的，它极大地限制了经济扩张，我们需要更好的

Fantastic-Alps4335 -> yogeshkumar4
But what is better than gold?

但是，还有什么比黄金更好呢？

Tankcue -> Fantastic-Alps4335
people seem to believe bitcoin but they are brainwashed

人们似乎相信比特币，但他们被洗脑了

hairynutzndik -> U2Brockus
It’s the haves vs the have nots. But let’s be real, Saudi essentially runs opec and needs the US to get their goals accomplished. This effectively neuters all other members. China is the only threat here and it’s gonna eat up all those other bum countries. Then they will turn on china. It’ll be interesting to see the dynamics

这是富人 vs 穷人的局面。但让我们现实一点吧，沙特实际上是石油输出国组织的运营国，需要美国来实现他们的目标。这有效地隔离了所有其他成员。中国是这里唯一的威胁，它会吞噬所有其他无赖国家。然后他们就会把矛头指向中国。看到这个动态会很有趣的。

gimme_pineapple -> hairynutzndik
I don't know much about this, but I recently saw a report that said the US has been losing influence with the Saudis. IIRC the issue was that Joe Biden used some anti-Saudi rhetoric during the campaign and has since been snubbing MBS (over moral issues, I think). MBS said something along the lines of (we don't lecture them and they shouldn't lecture us", which I think is diplomat-speak for "go fuck yourself". And the US also asked the Saudis to increase their oil exports during this crisis, but the Saudis refused.

我对此了解不多，但我最近看到一份报告称，美国正在失去对沙特的影响力。如果我记得没错的话问题是，乔·拜登在竞选期间使用了一些反沙特的言论，从那以后就一直冷落本·萨勒曼(我想是因为道德问题)。本·萨勒曼说了类似这样的话(我们不去教训他们，他们也不应该来教训我们)，我认为这是“去你妈的”的外交辞令。美国也要求沙特在这次危机中增加石油出口，但沙特拒绝了。

fishy247 -> gimme_pineapple
Don’t kid yourself, SA is on a leash. They know that they’ll get a heavy dose of FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY like their neighbors if they ever actually jeopardize the status of the petrodollar.

不要自欺欺人了，沙特阿拉伯是被拴住的。他们知道，如果他们真的危及了石油美元的地位，他们将会像他们的邻居一样获得大量的自由和民主。

gimme_pineapple -> fishy247
Yeah, probably. But the US has been a lot less aggressive recently than it ever was. I think that's because of the social media. But the CIA probably has a playbook somewhere on discretely uprooting foreign governments, so who knows.

可能吧。但美国最近比以往任何时候都不那么咄咄逼人了。我认为这是因为社交媒体。但是，中情局可能有一套秘密地连根拔起外国政府的剧本，所以谁知道呢。

IHaveEbola_
This war has actually made the power come out in the open (russia, china, north korea.... then probably iran, Syria, cuba, Venezuela, afghan)

这场战争实际上使势力范围公开化了(俄罗斯，中国，朝鲜....然后可能是伊朗，叙利亚，古巴，委内瑞拉，阿富汗)

Maximum_Radio_1971
lest remember: In 2015 the UnionPay overtook Visa and Mastercard in total value of payments made by customers and became the largest card payment processing organization (debit and credit cards combined) in the world surpassing the two.
Globally, UnionPay’s contactless payment is accepted at 29 million merchant point-of-sale terminals in 93 markets and UnionPay QR Code payment is accepted at 31 million merchants in 45 countries and regions, according to data put forth in the press release.

别忘了：2015年，银联在客户支付总额上超过了 Visa 和万事达卡，成为世界上最大的卡支付处理机构(借记卡和信用卡加起来) ，超过了这两家机构。
根据新闻稿中提供的数据，在全球范围内，93个市场的2900万商户销售点终端上接受银联的非接触式支付，45个国家和地区的3100万商户接受银联的二维码支付。

HisWife00000 -> Maximum_Radio_1971
We might live to regret banning them from Swift. China is on a crusade to replace the US as the world's economic power.

我们可能会后悔禁止他们进入Swift。中国正在进行一场取代美国成为世界经济强国的运动。

Im_A_MechanicalMan -> HisWife00000
Yep. The entire approach of attempting to suffocate Russia economically was a big mistake for the long term. It empowers China even more and is further bonding alliances between countries hostile to the West.
Then 30 years of the West doing business growing China into the force it has become was a worse mistake. Profit/Greed above all is starting to haunt us.

是的。从长远来看，试图在经济上扼杀俄罗斯的整个做法都是一个巨大的错误。它赋予中国更多的权力，并进一步加强了敌视西方的国家之间的联盟。
然而，西方30年来的商业活动，将中国发展成为一股强大的力量，是一个更大的错误。利润/贪婪高于一切，这点开始困扰我们了。

adiamondintheruff -> Im_A_MechanicalMan
It's our leaders that have these greedy errors, the people will pay the cost, not the responsible ones.

是我们的领导人犯了这些贪婪的错误，付出代价的是人民，而不是负责任的人。

hhzziivv -> Im_A_MechanicalMan
Not only that, it changes how the world works fundamentally when the permanent neutral Swiss picked a side. That's a bad move imo.

不仅如此，当永久中立的瑞士人选边站时，世界的运作方式就发生了根本性的改变。在我看来，那是一个糟糕的举动。

pigsgetfathogsdie -> Im_A_MechanicalMan
Russia GDP = Texas GDP
Economically, Russia has a micropeen.

俄罗斯 GDP = 德克萨斯州 GDP
从经济上看，俄罗斯微不足道。

Awesome____Sauce -> pigsgetfathogsdie
who the fuck cares about GDP? Russia is one of the world's biggest exporters of natural resources which is 100 times more important than "gdp"

谁他妈关心GDP？俄罗斯是世界上最大的自然资源出口国之一，其重要性是“GDP”的100倍

LouBricant -> Awesome____Sauce
Russia has no economy though. 40% of their economy they dig up from the ground. They’re increasingly irrelevant. China can have them.

不过俄罗斯没有经济。他们40%的经济都是从地下挖出来的。它们越来越无关紧要了。中国可以拥有它们。

Im_A_MechanicalMan -> LouBricant
I suspect that's all Russia needs as far as China is concerned. Russia has tons of mineral resources that China can buy for cheap while also having the largest active arsenal of nuclear warheads ready. It's win-win for China to have influence over Russia through deep economic ties.

我感觉，就中国而言，这就是俄罗斯所需要的。俄罗斯拥有大量的矿产资源，中国可以低价购买，同时拥有最大的现役核弹头库存。对中国来说，通过深入的经济联系对俄罗斯产生影响是双赢的。

HisWife00000 -> Im_A_MechanicalMan
So correct!!! Our leaders had to have known we'd regret profiting from cheaply made Chinese goods. I mean, I could see it years ago.

太正确了！！！我们的领导人必须知道，我们会后悔从廉价的中国商品中获利的。我的意思是，我几年前就看出来了。

Maximum_Radio_1971 -> HisWife00000
banning russia from Swift was a mistake. now the whole of asia and its 50% of the world population will trade under Chinese systems.

禁止俄罗斯进入Swift是错误的。现在，整个亚洲以及世界50%的人口将在中国的体系下进行贸易。

olearygreen -> Maximum_Radio_1971
Right… because a country like India would much rather deal with Chinese systems than Western. Why exactly?
Of course they will try using new things. But to declare the death if SWIFT is a bit premature.

没错... 因为像印度这样的国家宁愿与中国打交道，也不愿与西方打交道。到底是为什么呢？
当然，他们会尝试使用新的东西，但如果宣布SWIFT的死亡就有点为时过早了。

EstateAlternative416
You guys do realize the SWIFT ban doesn’t apply to energy transactions right?

你们知道 SWIFT 的禁令不适用于能源交易吧？

mrs_dalloway -> EstateAlternative416
Right. I heard European oil purchases from Russia are permitted—everything else isn’t.

没错，我听说欧洲可以从俄罗斯购买石油——其他一切都不行。

U2Brockus
And the U.S. formally created its next much needed eternal enemy bloc

美国正式建立了下一个急需的永久敌对集团

crystalpeaks25 -> U2Brockus
this is the US way.

这就是美国的方式。

fishy247 -> crystalpeaks25
Can’t have a superhero without a super villain.

超级英雄不能没有超级大反派。

TheIncredibleWalrus -> fishy247
It's the only comic where everyone is the villain tbh.

老实说，这是唯一一部每个人都是反派的漫画。

Roulettebellagio -> U2Brockus
Government always need enemy to keep people disciplined and justify their spendings on army.

政府总是需要敌人来维持人民的纪律，并证明他们花在军队上的钱是合理的。

Llanite -> Roulettebellagio
57% of silicon workers are Asian, 2 third of who are foreign. They will all be gone if a real economic war started with China or India.

57%的硅业工人是亚洲人，其中三分之二是外国人。如果与中国或印度爆发一场真正的经济战争，这些国家都会消失。

rlsimonton3
Oh shit! New economic sphere emerging!

噢，妈的！ 新的经济领域正在出现！

pcbuilder1907 -> rlsimonton3
China has next to no native oil reserves, unlike the United States, which could supply itself and much of the Western world.
For China, this is ultimately about oil as one carrier battle group right now could cut China off from 90% of it's oil supply.

中国几乎没有本土石油储备，不像美国可以供应自己和西方世界的大部分地区。
对中国来说，这最终是关于石油的，因为一个航空母舰战斗群现在就可以切断中国90%的石油供应。

DeliriousPrecarious -> pcbuilder1907
If Russian oil becomes sanctioned then you have a fractured market with Russian oil trading at a discount due to reduced demand.

如果俄罗斯的石油受到制裁，那么由于需求减少，俄罗斯的石油以折扣价交易将导致市场破碎。

pcbuilder1907 -> DeliriousPrecarious
The Biden administration is not going to sanction China for buying Russian oil.
That was clear after they lifted some Trump era tariffs for nothing in return.

拜登政府不会因为中国购买俄罗斯石油而制裁中国。
在他们无条件取消了特朗普时代的一些关税之后，这一点就很明显了。

Whistling_Birds
I think we're seeing the rise of a Russo-Chinese power, where international trade will be settled in a basket of domestic currencies instead of the dollar. Ofcourse, Russia will likely go through a transition period of an economic collapse, rampant criminalism, population flight and a change of leadership, but with generational sanctions they've been left permanently in the Chinese orbit.

我认为，我们正在看到俄中势力的崛起，在那里，国际贸易将以一篮子本国货币而不是美元来结算。当然，俄罗斯可能会经历经济崩溃、犯罪猖獗、人口外流和领导层更迭的过渡时期，但随着世代的制裁，他们将永远留在了中国的轨道上。

olearygreen -> Whistling_Birds
I’ve got news for you. People trade in USD because it is stable. Nobody will trade in “local currencies” internationally if your currency is the Ruble and nosedives when you invade a country.

我有个消息要告诉你。人们用美元交易，是因为它很稳定。如果你的货币是卢布，而当你入侵一个国家导致暴跌之后，没有人会在国际上用“本地货币”贸易。

Whistling_Birds -> olearygreen
That sounds all well and good, until you realize Russia and China already trade in each other's respective currencies.

在你意识到俄罗斯和中国已经在用各自的货币进行贸易之前，这听起来是不错。

olearygreen -> Whistling_Birds
I would love to see those contracts. There is no way there are a significant amount of long term contracts in Rubles. Or they have hedged the FX rate which comes at an additional cost and hampers trade (which us why the USD is commonly used)
China has a stable currency though. So that doesn’t surprise me too much.

我很想看看那些合同。不可能有大量的卢布长期合同。或者，他们已经对冲了外汇汇率，这需要额外的成本，阻碍了贸易(这就是为什么普遍使用美元的原因)
不过，中国的货币是稳定的。所以这并不让我感到惊讶。

Sziom
So our retards managed to make the Chinese even richer. Great!

所以我们的弱智让中国人变得更加富有，太好了！

NecessaryCat5e
Y'all are circle-jerking hard over the slightest hint of the West's downturn of dominance.

对于西方主导地位下降的一点点迹象，你们各位都在使劲互吹。

Odd_Perception_283
You have to know Russia knew that this was on the table as a possibility. They already have deals in place to mitigate a lot of our sanctions.

你必须知道，俄罗斯清楚这情况是可能发生的。他们已经达成协议，来减轻我们的许多制裁。

chomponthebit
The fact that the portion of a nation’s wealth denominated in US dollars - and access to the swift system - can be frozen at any time is now on every country’s radar. They will seek a non-dollar answer. IMO, the US just punched themselves in the cunt. Dollar hegemony is over

一个国家财富中以美元计价的部分，以及进入Swift系统——随时可能会被冻结的这一事实，现在已经引起了每个国家的注意。他们将寻求一个非美元的答案。在我看来，美国只是给自己的屄来了一拳。美元霸权结束了

Practical_Hospital40
Russia vs NATO
WINNER is China lol

俄罗斯 vs 北约
赢家是中国，哈哈

BBIGPROGAMC
The world still can ban transactions came from russia. The world still can block any transactions that is made by a russian.

世界仍然可以禁止来自俄罗斯的交易。世界仍然可以阻止俄罗斯人进行的任何交易。

LETSGETSCHWIFTY -> BBIGPROGAMC
Step 1: make in Russia
Step 2: mail to China
Step 3: mail to America
Not the first time and not the last time retarded sanctions do nothing but add extra delivery fees
I buy from China. When trump was president they just sent my shit to Vietnam first. It is what it is.

第一步：俄罗斯制造
第二步：寄往中国
第三步：寄往美国
这不是第一次，也不是最后一次，白痴的制裁只会徒增额外的运送费用。
我从中国买东西。特朗普当总统的时候，他们只是先把我的东西送到越南。事实就是如此。

Roshann_Gupta
Whenever you shake hands with chinese keep in mind they always scheme behind your back.

每当你和中国人握手时，要记住他们总是在你背后策划。

No-Client6486 -> Roshann_Gupta
Who doesn’t?

谁不是呢？

lordofming-rises
So euro are fucked mid to long term? Jesus I don't know where to invest now

所以，从中长期来看，欧元要完蛋了？天啊，我不知道现在该在哪里投资了

-Pvt_Ganso -> lordofming-rises
The old world is fucked, invest on the new world. Latin America is gonna start taking a lot of outsourcing on the near future.

旧世界完蛋了，投资新世界吧。在不久的将来，拉丁美洲将开始接受大量的外包。

Llanite -> lordofming-rises
Short, mid and long term.
Germany is top 5 economy due to them being evaluated in Euro. When it is reevaluated to take into account local purchasing power (GDP PPP), they're about the same size as Russia.

短期、中期和长期。
由于德国是以欧元评估的，所以它是前五大经济体。如果将当地购买力(GDP PPP)考虑在内进行重新评估的话，他们的规模与俄罗斯差不多。

chilibowXZ
I need to know what i have to buy now.

我需要知道我现在要买什么。

colonelgoatfucker -> chilibowXZ
Ammo, seeds, junk silver. Don't forget toilet paper.

弹药，种子，废银。还有别忘了卫生纸。

CopperHands1
USA pushing the world to embrace China and their financial system at an even faster rate than before. Congrats, they played themselves.

美国正在以比以前更快的速度，推动世界拥抱中国和他们的金融体系。恭喜，他们自己玩自己的。

Pinochet1191973
Yes, we are. That, and the credit card payment systems. By putting themselves at the mercy of political correctness and virtue signalling SWIFT, Visa and Mastercard have shown that they aren't fit as global payment instruments.
It's fashionable being stupid, but this is the price you pay for being stupid.
I own shares of both Visa and Mastercard and I will keep them (for now), as on a cooler, purely business-based analysis the long-term benefits I expect from them should still vastly exceed the damage they are doing to themselves. Still, this is a worrying development.
Companies exist to conduct businesses, not to take part in political controversies. They have no popular mandate to do that, and they haven't asked their shareholder whether they should take sides. Mind my words: the day will come when these powerful multinationals will use their power in a way *you don't like*.
Plus, there is the political side of this. At the moment, we aren't there. But the time will come when the assets of the companies you are invested in are destroyed because your company tried to play unelected politician.

是的，我们是这样。还有信用卡支付系统。通过把自己置于政治正确和SWIFT的支配之下，Visa和万事达已经表明，它们不适合作为全球支付工具。
做蠢事很流行，但这是你做蠢事要付出的代价。
我持有 Visa 和万事达卡的股票，我会继续持有这些股票(暂时)，因为从更冷静、纯粹的商业分析来看，我预计它们带来的长期利益仍应该远远超过它们对自己造成的损害。不过，这趋势仍然让人担忧。
公司的存在是为了开展业务，而不是为了参与政治争议。他们没有得到公众的授权，也没有问股东是否应该站在哪一边。记住我的话：总有一天，这些强大的跨国公司，会以一种你不喜欢的方式使用他们的权力。
此外，这其中有政治的一面。现在，我们还没到那地步。但是总有一天，你投资的公司的资产，会因为这家公司试图扮演未经选举产生的政客而被摧毁。

wsbbanned
Banning Russia from SWIFT set up a precidence that any nation is prone to sudden cutoff from International financial community. VISA & Mastercard might never be able to operate in russia/China and soon India might ban them too. Huge stupidity from Biden.

禁止俄罗斯进入SWIFT，开创了一个先例：任何国家都有可能突然被切断与国际金融界的联系。VISA和万事达卡可能永远无法在俄罗斯/中国运营，很快印度可能也会禁止它们。拜登真是愚蠢透顶。

ccrrr2
You retards if Russia and China leave from Swift we are fucked...

你们这些白痴，如果俄罗斯和中国离开SWIFT，我们就完蛋了...

MinimumCat123 -> ccrrr2
Why would China leave SWIFT if they do the majority of their business with Countries that use SWIFT?

如果中国的大部分业务都是与使用 SWIFT 的国家打交道，那么它为什么要离开 SWIFT 呢？

Zubba776 -> ccrrr2
Nah. You'll just end up with two competing blocks, where the western block is still the dominant player through a preponderance of market dominion.

不。你最后只会看到两个相互竞争的区块，其中，由于市场统治的优势，西方区块仍然是主导者。

turok643
They prepared for this. Russia isn't in as weak of a position as the media is saying. Putin isn't that stupid.

他们为此做好了准备。俄罗斯并不像媒体所说的那样处于弱势。普京没那么蠢。

strogonoffpizza -> turok643
Russia is in a very weak position. If they wanted to control Ukraine, they will ended up being controlled by China.
Their economy just sinked, major companies left Russia. They will need China for everything.
And yes, Putin is very stupid. Even if they win the war, they would need a constant presence at Ukraine, they wouldn't be able do control a puppet state without strong military control. It was also said that Kremlin staff wasn't aware of Putin's intention to invade Ukraine.
More countries will be willing to enjoy NATO (Finland went from 20% willing to join nato, to above 50%), and countries are accelerating their energy industries.

俄罗斯非常弱势。如果他们想控制乌克兰，他们最终会被中国控制。
他们的经济衰退，大公司纷纷离开俄罗斯，他们的一切都需要中国。
是的，普京非常蠢。即使他们赢得了战争，他们也需要在乌克兰长期驻守，如果没有强大的军事控制，他们就无法控制一个傀儡国家。还有消息称，克里姆林宫的工作人员并不知道普京入侵乌克兰的意图。
更多的国家将愿意加入北约(芬兰从20%愿意加入北约，增加到50%以上)，各国都在加快能源产业的发展。

LETSGETSCHWIFTY -> strogonoffpizza
This isn’t about Ukraine. It’s about something much bigger. Putin doesn’t give a fuck about Ukrainian land. I think we sit back and watch what unfolds.

这和乌克兰无关。这是一个更大的事情。普京根本不在乎乌克兰的土地。我认为我们应该坐下来，看看事情的发展。

strogonoffpizza -> LETSGETSCHWIFTY
Even if it's something bigger, it starts with Ukraine.
So far, it just shows how dependent on China, Russia is going to be, instead of being a bridge with two the big blocks.

即使它是更大的事情，也是始于乌克兰。
到目前为止，这只是表明俄罗斯会多依赖中国，而不是成为连接两个大区块的桥梁。

No-Client6486
It’s genuinely sad to see how ignorant a lot of people are. Mainly ones who’ve never left their hometown/state and traveled abroad.

看到很多人如此无知，真的很难过。主要是那些从来没有离开过家乡/州并出国旅行的人。

gopack42
Biden is owned by China and Ukraine. Thats the simplest answer to everything that is happening right now.

中国和乌克兰拥有拜登，对于现在发生的一切，这是最简单的回答。

Efficient-Library792
The big thing i see here is Iran and the other nations itching to dump the dollar could push to stop trading oil in dollars. That would make dc and wall street lose their shit. And it will pro ably happen in a few decades anyway if china keeps growimg

我在这里看到的一件大事是，伊朗和其他急于抛售美元的国家可能会推动停止以美元交易石油。这会让华盛顿和华尔街发疯的。如果中国继续保持增长，无论如何，这情况(停止美元交易石油)很可能在几十年内就会发生。

thehouseofcrazies
Swift is a payment messaging system, not a payment system. Although more difficult, it's still possible for banks to send each other money without Swift. Interested to see how this plays out although my gut feeling is that's this expulsion from swift is going to hurt the US and its allies more than Russia.

Swift 是一个支付报文系统，而不是支付系统。尽管更加困难，但是银行之间仍然可以在没有 Swift 的情况下互相汇款。虽然我的直觉是，驱逐出Swift这件事，比起俄罗斯，对美国及其盟友的伤害更大，但我很想看看这件事的结果。

fix_S230-sue_reddit
Whether China wants it or not, the internationalization of the yuan will be accelerated. The events these days are a crucial turning point.

不管中国愿不愿意，人民币的国际化进程都将加速。这些天发生的事情是一个关键的转折点。

Quality_Fun -> fix_S230-sue_reddit
are you implying that china may not want the yuan to be used more?

你是在暗示中国可能不希望人民币被广泛使用吗？

DreamyLucid -> Quality_Fun
Yes. Sort of.

是的，算是吧。

fix_S230-sue_reddit -> Quality_Fun
The scope and rate of the internationalization of the yuan are still up for debate, within and outside China. There are also shortcomings to becoming the world reserve currency, and China would very much like to avoid them.

人民币国际化的范围和速度在中国国内外仍然存在争议。成为世界储备货币也有缺点，中国非常希望避免这些缺点。

Quality_Fun -> fix_S230-sue_reddit
the yuan is far from replacing the usd as a reserve currency.

人民币离取代美元成为储备货币还很远。

ni-hao-r-u -> Quality_Fun
I don't think they should replace the dollar.
I think it is a lot cooler and a lot safer to be an alternative though.
It is like the ever present threat that is just on the border of your peripheral vision. Somebody driving in your blind spot.
An ever constant threat to remind you to stay on your toes.
I like it

我不认为他们应该取代美元。
不过，我认为这是一个更酷更安全的替代方案。
这就像是在你周边视野的边缘上一直存在的威胁。有人在你的盲区上开车。
一个随时提醒你保持警惕的威胁。
我喜欢。

limitz -> Quality_Fun
It's used less than the pound sterling right now by percentage, so there's certainly a ways to go.

按百分比计算，目前它的使用率低于英镑，所以肯定还有一段路要走。

kcwingood -> Quality_Fun
Becoming a valid alternative during crises or for direct trade is fine, but China should not strive to be the top or dominant currency, which is just economic hegemony as the US demonstrates by routinely abusing its power. Besides, China still needs to control the stability of its currency to better deal with its own domestic issues, which should be the priority over any international interests.

在危机期间或直接贸易中成为一种有效的替代货币固然可以，但中国不应力争成为主导货币，正如美国经常滥用其权力所展示的那样，这只是经济霸权。此外，中国仍然需要控制其货币的稳定性，以更好地处理自己的国内问题，这应该是高于任何国际利益的优先事项。

yuewanggoujian
Just curious if anyone knows. If Visa and Mastercard cut links is the debt written off for users in Russia since they can’t transact?

只是好奇有没有人知道。如果Visa和万事达卡切断了联系，那么俄罗斯用户的债务，会因为他们不能交易而被注销吗？

ConnectEngine -> yuewanggoujian
I think the cards were issued by Russian banks so they still need to pay back their banks.

我认为这些卡是由俄罗斯的银行发行的，所以他们仍然需要偿还他们银行的钱。

NigerianGirl69
Russia consumer market is not small. US companies are going to completely lost this market for a very long time.

俄罗斯的消费市场不小，美国公司将在很长一段时间内完全失去这个市场。

LITERALLY_A_TYRANID
These sanctions are just creating an alternative economic system, who would have thought

这些制裁只是在创造一个替代的经济体系，谁能想到呢

MelodicBerries
The Western monopolies on everything from payment processors to high-tech inputs are slowly but inexorably coming to an end. We will likely going to see a bifurcated world. The "westosphere" in one corner and the Eurasian sphere in the other, with China being the lead player.
The West will not take this lightly! They will try to blackmail & sanction everyone who dares step out of line.

从支付机构到高科技投入，西方对一切事物的垄断，在缓慢但无情地走向尽头。我们很可能会看到一个两极化的世界。一极是“西方圈”，另一极欧亚圈，中国是主导者。
西方不会对此掉以轻心的！他们会试图勒索和制裁任何敢于越界的人。

sickof50
Bigotry, violence, and Racism are American Foreign Policy!

偏执、暴力和种族主义是美国的外交政策！

SQQQ
this is about the dumbest move possible by corporations. when you "impose sanctions" on a national gov't, this is asking for it.

这大概是企业可能采取的最愚蠢的举动了。当你对一个国家的政府实施“制裁”时，这就是自找的。

Gaoran
And just like that, UnionPay instantly gained 140 million new users. We are really seeing the collapse of the AmeriKKKan financial system firsthand. You love to see it.

就这样，银联立即获得了1.4亿新用户。我们亲眼目睹了美国金融体系的崩溃。你会喜欢看到的。

lemontree266 -> Gaoran
When U$A use it’s economic, financial, technological and legal policies as the new weapon, it’s time to distance and protect yourself from U$A.

当美$国利用其经济、金融、技术和法律政策作为新的武器时，是时候保护自己远离美$国了。