[2022-03-09]红迪评论区：中国邀请美国加入“一带一路”倡议

概要：


“上海公报”发表50周年纪念大会上王毅的讲话节选：我们对美方参与共建“一带一路”倡议和全球发展倡议持开放态度，也愿考虑同美方“重建更好世界”倡议进行协调，向世界提供更多的优质公共产品。
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exokey
If china and america actually got along its game over for russia

如果中国和美国真的和睦相处，俄罗斯的游戏就结束了

angrydanmarin -> exokey
It's already game over for Russia

对俄罗斯来说，这已经是游戏结束了

Snoo_17340 -> angrydanmarin
Yup. They economically collapsed. China and the U.S. doing business as usual is not going to stop that.

是的，他们的经济崩溃了。中国和美国照常做生意是不会阻止这一切的。

Simply_Epic -> Snoo_17340
Exactly. The entire time I was saying China wouldn’t explicitly side with Russia because being the US’s trade ally is far more valuable than Russia’s war ally.
Greed is what has made war such a rarity in the modern world.

没错。我一直在说，中国不会明确支持俄罗斯，因为作为美国的贸易盟友比作为俄罗斯的战争盟友更有价值。
正是贪婪使得战争在现代世界如此罕见。

donlabelme
China is far more predictable than Russia. China will never pull off something like Putin did.

中国比俄罗斯更可预测，中国永远不会像普京那样搞出一些事情来。

tlighta -> donlabelme
Really it comes down to the fact that America and China are both mostly peaceful nations interested in trade.
Each side will certainly try to dominate culturally and economically. But that's what trade is.

事实上，归根结底，基本上美国和中国都是对贸易感兴趣的和平国家。
双方肯定会试图在文化和经济上占据主导地位，但这就是贸易。

RKU69 -> tlighta
America and China are both mostly peaceful nations interested in trade.
??? Have you paid any attention to the last twenty years of US foreign policy. The Middle East is in absolute ruins, in large part due to US military interventions and proxy wars, and it keep getting worse. And the chaos is even expanding to Africa now.

“基本上美国和中国都是对贸易感兴趣的和平国家。”
？？？你注意过美国过去二十年的外交政策吗。由于美国的军事干预和代理人战争，中东已经成为一片废墟，而且情况还在继续恶化。现在混乱甚至扩大到了非洲。

random_shitter -> tlighta
(...) America (...) mostly peaceful nation(...)
I think we have a slight difference of opinion here.

(...)美国(...)基本上和平的国家(...)
我想我们在这里的意见上，有点分歧。

CeleryApple
The Chinese have a very different approach to building infrastructure. They go by “building the road first and people will come”. The high speed rail network cost a fortune to build and it is operating at the loss (very low ticket prices). But the 2.2 Billion people total ridership from 2008 to 2019 has generated an economic benefit that far outweighed the cost. In the US infrastructure investment tend concentrate on short term profits/benefits. Just look at our California high speed rail project… Our government use to “invest” long term in infrastructure as well. Look at the interstate highway system and how much it cost to build (half a trillion dollars in today’s money). It benefited generations of people and generated almost 6x the economic productivity than it costed. We must admit that we haven’t been doing very well in the infrastructure department.

中国人在基础设施建设方面有着非常不同的做法。他们的方式是“先修路，人就会来”。高铁网的建设耗资巨大，目前正处于亏损状态(票价非常低)。但是从2008年到2019年，22亿人的总载客量产生了远远超过成本的经济效益。在美国，基础设施投资往往集中在短期利润/效益上。看看我们的加利福尼亚高铁项目... 我们的政府以前也对基础设施进行过长期“投资”。看看州际公路系统和它的建设成本(以今天的货币计算是5000亿美元)。它使几代人受益，产生的经济生产力几乎是其成本的6倍。我们必须承认，我们在基础设施方面做得不是很好。

CrescentCrisp -> CeleryApple
Half the time governments don’t want to commit to long term projects because a new party could be in power and reap the benefits. That’s not a problem for China and the long term strategy will nearly always pan out better in these scenarios…

有一半的时间，政府不想致力于长期项目，因为新的政党可能会掌权并从中获利。这对中国来说不是问题，在这种情况下，长期战略几乎总会取得更好的结果...

This_one_taken_yet_
Can we get some high speed rail? It seems like the USA has forgotten how to build railroads.

我们能得到一些高铁吗？似乎美国已经忘记怎样修建铁路了。

Haa103 -> This_one_taken_yet_
We never learned how to build high speed rail. California is a great example.

我们从未学过如何建造高铁，加利福尼亚就是一个很好的例子。

TheThinkingMansPenis -> This_one_taken_yet_
Seems fitting, seeing as it was exploited Chinese laborers that built our railroads back in the day anyway.

看起来很合适，毕竟我们的铁路是当年被剥削的中国劳工修建的。

Heimdall09 -> This_one_taken_yet_
The biggest barrier to high speed rail in the US is land.
Getting access to all the land required is expensive and legally complicated, and some land owners just won’t want to sell.

在美国，高铁的最大障碍是陆地。
获得所有需要的土地既昂贵在法律上又复杂，一些土地所有者就是不想出售。

57hz
The fact that this is even on the table is interesting. The US doesn’t obviously say yes, but warmer relations with China is not a terrible idea right now.

事实上，这个事情甚至摆在桌面上了，这很有趣。美国显然没有答应，但目前与中国关系回暖并不是一个糟糕的主意。

itisoktodance -> 57hz
It's an excellent idea. There are no two economies more intertwined than China and the US. By all rights, they should have been allies long ago, were it not for historical differences and cold War holdovers.

这是个好主意。没有比中国和美国这两个经济体更相互交织的了。无论如何，如果没有历史分歧和冷战遗留问题，他们早就应该成为盟友。

Bleakwind -> 57hz
It’s very unlikely that China and US ever ally themselves. Their system is too incompatible and their interest set them on a collision course. It’s only a matter of time before more open hostilities between them.
Even Russia wouldn’t. That’s why there isn’t a defined China-Russian alliance. In words only they are allies but they both know China doesn’t need Russia, but Russia will need China.


中国和美国结盟的可能性很小。他们的体制太不相容了，他们的利益使他们走上了冲突的道路。他们之间更加公开的敌对行动只是个时间问题。
即使是俄罗斯也不会。这就是为什么没有一个明确的中俄联盟。他们只是口头上的盟友，但他们都知道中国不需要俄罗斯，但俄罗斯需要中国。

DA-ZACHYZACHY -> Bleakwind
You also have to look at it from a political point of view. Views of China are (rightfully) incredibly poor in the eyes of voters.

你还必须从政治的角度来看待这个事情。在选民眼中，对中国的看法(理所当然)令人难以置信的糟糕。

Semradrid -> Bleakwind
Honestly the US should join it imo.

老实说，我认为美国应该加入。

KABOOMBYTCH
Friendship ended with Russia, now America is my new best friend

与俄罗斯的友谊结束了，现在美国是我新的最好朋友

Ancient_Penny
i think this sounda great, the 2 most powerful nations working together to build the world up into a better place.

我觉得这听起来很棒，两个最强大的国家一起努力，把世界建设得更美好。

Rikeka
If only to fuck with Russia, do it.

如果只是为了对付俄罗斯，那就做吧。

sephelutis -> Rikeka
This is our chance better not miss it

这是我们的机会，最好不要错过

notathr0waway1
Can we do our own roads and bridges first? Please?

我们能先修建我们自己的道路和桥梁吗？拜托？

Gunterxmusic
I just want a fucking train. Everyone here is poor and is forced to drive to their shitty jobs.

我只想要一列他妈的火车。这里的每个人都很穷，被迫开车去做他们的烂工作。

Deadman_Wonderland -> Gunterxmusic
Train is sounding really good right now with these $5/gal gas prices.

在5美元/加仑的汽油价格下，火车现在听起来真的很不错。

Gunterxmusic -> Deadman_Wonderland
Hell yeah, broooother!!

真他妈的好啊，兄弟！！

MrDayvs
The USA wouldn't benefit as much as china in fact they wouldn't benefit very little, those infrastructure projects are specifically designed to make China the center of trade, they only want the USA to give money in exchange for very little return.

美国不会得到中国那么多的好处，事实上他们受益很少，那些基础设施项目是专门为使中国成为贸易中心而设计的，他们只是想让美国给他们钱，来换取很少的回报。

Nadasbody -> MrDayvs
infrastructure projects are specifically designed to make China the center of trade
Dude China has been the center of trade for a decade now, and the world center of gravity of GDP for a while as well.

“那些基础设施项目是专门为使中国成为贸易中心而设计的”
兄弟，中国已经成为贸易中心十年了，同时也是世界 GDP 重心有一段时间了。

MaxinWells -> Nadasbody
Lol China has been a center of trade for millennium. Europe was trading with China before we even knew what China was.
The only reason China isn't more of a powerhouse today is that when advanced Europeans started spreading East, the ruling dynasty at the time was extremely conservative and practically refused to advance. No industrialization, no advanced military tactics, and this led to the "Century of Humiliation", where China was repeatedly invaded by pretty much any power that wanted to.
Say what you want about the Communist party and their totalitarian regime, but they were able to take China from total backwater to great power in less than 60 years.

哈哈，中国千年来一直是世界贸易中心。甚至在我们知道中国是什么之前，欧洲就已经在和中国进行贸易了。
中国今天之所以不是一个强国，唯一的原因是当先进的欧洲人开始向东方扩张时，当时的统治王朝极其保守，几乎拒绝进步。没有工业化，没有先进的军事战术，这就导致了“百年国耻”，在那时，中国不断受到几乎所有想要入侵的国家的侵略。
随便你怎么说共产党和他们的极权政权，但他们能够在不到60年的时间里，就把中国从一潭死水变成一个大国。

testedonsheep
Don’t see why not. But I can’t think of ways the us and China economy could be anymore intertwined.

看不出有什么不可以的，但我想不出美国和中国的经济还能有什么交集。

naqthan
Finally some good geopolitical news. I know “China bad” and “China is authoritarian,” but we live in the 21st century. We need to maintain relationships with countries even if they don’t align with our world view. Once our ability to communicate and interact diplomatically breaks down, we see things like Russia and Ukraine. From my American perspective, if we truly want world peace, we have to be willing to act decisively and strongly diplomatically more than just wielding our “big stick.” War is NEVER the answer let alone when a nuclear power is involved and if that means working with our enemies and compromising, then that’s what we should do. We should be working with China and developing close diplomatic ties even with our enemies. We have to give a little to get a little

终于有一些好的地缘政治消息了。我知道“中国坏”和“中国是专制的”，但我们生活在21世纪。我们需要与国家保持关系，即使它们与我们的世界观不一致。一旦我们沟通和外交互动的能力崩溃，我们就会看到像俄罗斯和乌克兰这样的国家。从我作为美国人观点来看，如果我们真的想要世界和平，我们必须愿意采取果断和强有力的外交行动，而不仅仅是挥舞我们的“大棒”。战争永远不是答案，更不用说当涉及到核力量时，如果这意味着与我们的敌人合作和妥协，那么这就是我们应该做的。我们应该与中国合作，发展密切的外交关系，即使是与我们的敌人也一样。我们必须付出一点才能得到一点。

themadas5hatter
Sounds about as appealing as sticking my dick in a bear trap , thank you.

听起来就跟把我的老二塞进捕熊器一样有吸引力，谢谢。

Gaijin_Monster
If the US signs up for this, it's political suicide for the vast majority of federal elected officials.

如果美国签署了这个协议，对绝大多数联邦民选官员来说，这无异于是政治自杀。

DM_Brownie_Recipies
This gives me USSR joining NATO vibes.

这让我产生了苏联加入北约的感觉。