[2021-10-08]如果中国与美国开战，为什么认为会比鸦片战争中的表现更好？

Liu Zeyang
Do you know this flag? It was the flag of 31st infantry regiment(US Army). Now it has been shown in the Military Museum of the Chinese People's Revolution for decades, after China's soldiers captured it in Korea during the Korean War.
And technically, we didn't go to war with just the United States. We went to war with every major power in the West then.
Before we went to war with the United States in Oct 1950, Five-star General Douglas MacArthur thought the U.S.A would win the war.
But America didn't.

你知道这面旗帜吗？它是美国陆军第31步兵团的旗帜。在朝鲜战争期间，中国志愿军在朝鲜缴获了它，现在它已经在中国人民革命军事博物馆展出了几十年。
严格来说，我们并不仅和美国战斗。那时我们的对手是西方的所有大国。
在1950年10月我们与美国开战之前，五星上将道格拉斯·麦克阿瑟认为美国会赢得这场战争。
但美国没有。
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Ruby Tsao
Don’t forget China fought in Korea not to invade Korea, but to defend against US invasion to spill over the border to China. The same with Vietnam War, not to invade Vietnam. Nixon had to meet Mao Zedong in 1972 to end the Vietnam War.

不要忘记，中国在朝鲜的作战不是为了入侵朝鲜，而是为了抵御美国越过边境入侵中国。越南战争也是如此，不是入侵越南。尼克松不得不在1972年会见毛泽东，以结束越南战争。

David Barry
Exactly.

没错。

Larry Sprott
We had no intention of invading China back then. We were ending a totalitarian that invaded a sovereign country unprovoked. Remember that.

当时我们并没有入侵中国的意图。我们正在结束无缘无故侵略一个主权国家的极权主义。记住这一点。

Ruby Tsao
MacArthur was considering dropping a nuclear bomb on China. Truman disagreed.

麦克阿瑟正在考虑向中国投下核弹，杜鲁门不同意。

Ruby Tsao
Truman could not agree because US did not have enough soldiers to handle occupation of a country of China’s size with 1.3 billion population.

杜鲁门不能同意，因为美国没有足够的士兵来处理占领中国这样一个13亿人口的国家。

Steven Tam
Of course. What the USA wants is always money. That’s why they forced China to signed so many unequal treaty. They had no intention to invade iraq, Afghan also. But they needed their resources and control of oil prices.
perhaps according to your logic thieves have no intention in stealing also. They’re only interested in other people’s money.
do you even know what you’re saying?

当然。美国想要的永远是钱。这就是为什么他们强迫中国签署了那么多不平等条约。他们也没有入侵伊拉克的意图，阿富汗也是如此。但他们需要那些国家的资源和对油价的控制。
也许根据你的逻辑，小偷也没有偷窃的意图，他们只对别人的钱感兴趣。
你知道自己说了啥吗？

David Barry
Mr Sprott will never understand. He chooses to be stuck in a fantasy world of believing that the US has any moral standing at all.

Sprott先生永远不会明白的。他选择陷入一个幻想的世界里，相信美国有任何道德立场。

Liu Lisong
Obviously, the Western world, especially the United States' neglect of this "forgotten war" has had a significant impact on their public opinion. It is true that China has not participated in a war for too long, so that some fools once again believe that we are but a paper dragon.

显然，西方世界，特别是美国对这场“被遗忘的战争”的忽视，对他们的公众舆论产生了重大影响。的确，中国很长时间没有参加过战争了，所以一些傻瓜又一次认为我们只是“纸”龙。

Larry Sprott
Thing is we didn’t lose by military defeat. We literally chose to stop fighting it. And that was not the will of the people the way it was handled.

问题是我们(美国)并没有因为军事失败而失败。我们实际上选择了停止战斗。这不是人们的意愿，也不是处理这件事的方式。

Liu Zeyang
Now in August 2021, we can say the last war you had ended up losing to Taliban in Afghanistan.

【楼主回复】现在是2021年8月，我们可以说，你们上一次在阿富汗的战争以输给塔利班而告终。

Larry Sprott
Are you suggesting that America is weaker than we think or is that directed at me in particular?

你是在暗示美国比我们想象的更弱，还是在特别针对我？

Tony Bazley
I hope they put their nukes where YOUR mouth is. The satanic usa is the worlds enemy. Hope from GREAT Britain.

我希望他们好好处理自己的核武器。撒旦美国是世界的敌人。来自英国的希望。

Larry Sprott
The US has done way more good than evil to the world. Hardly satanic. You’re just salty cause the Soviet Union fell apart.

美国给世界带来的好处远远多于坏处。算不上撒旦。你这么酸只是因为苏联解体了。

Mark Barta
MacArthur disobeyed orders and exceeded his mandate when he pushed the North Koreans past the Yalu river and into China and triggered the Chinese intervention in the first place.
China may have nearly pushed the Allied forces out of South Korea in turn, but they too were rolled back to the 38th Parallel. MacArthur was fired, and nobody else pushed for widening the war further as peace talks were allowed to take place.
It wasn’t even worry about China that was triggering the desire to end the fight, it was concern about Russia becoming actively involved if the US and allies tried (and succeeded) at pushing the Chinese forces out of North Korea.
It wasn’t that the Americans couldn’t push the Chinese out, they were confident they could handle China. The problem was Russia. They couldn’t handle Russia and China at the same time, and knew it. So they did what they thought prudent to keep Russia happy.

麦克阿瑟违抗命令越权行事，他把朝鲜人推到鸭绿江，并且进入中国，这首先导致了中国的干预。
中国可能反过来几乎把盟军赶出了韩国，但是他们也被打退到三八线。麦克阿瑟被解雇了，因为允许举行和平谈判，没有其他人推动进一步扩大战争。
甚至不是因为担心中国而触发了希望结束战争的念头，而是担心如果美国及其盟友试图(并成功地)将中国军队赶出朝鲜，俄罗斯会积极介入。
这并不是说美国人不能把中国人赶出去，他们相信他们能够对付中国。问题是俄罗斯。他们无法同时对付俄罗斯和中国，他们知道这点。因此，他们做了他们认为谨慎的事情，让俄罗斯满意。

Liu Zeyang
Glad that we had “great leader comrade Stalin” as our dear big brother then.

【楼主回复】很高兴当时我们有“伟大的领袖斯大林同志”作为我们亲爱的大哥。

Jamie Wang
And China was poor as fuck.
An army of Chinese voluntary army had less fire power than an US division. Less, I mean less than half of an US division, and no proper logistics, and no air support.
“It was that the Americans couldn’t push the Chinese out”
It was.

而那时中国穷得要命。中国志愿军的火力还不如美国的一支师。更少，我的意思是还不到美国一支师的一半，没有适当的后勤保障，没有空中支援。
“这并不是说美国人不能把中国人赶出去”——就是不能。

Mark Barta
The US could have done a lot more than what they did in the 1950’s. They just decided not to, and the world can be thankful they decided not to rick World War 3 over the (then) deeply impoverished nation of South Korea.
China didn’t defeat the United States of America in the Korean War, they defeated General Douglas MacArthur, there is a difference. The US achieved what it went into Korea to do, even if it didn’t achieve what MacArthur wanted to do. Really, MacArthur could almost be used as a case study for how Generals are supposed to be answerable to the President of the United States of America as the Commander in Chief. MacArthur wasn’t, because he had powerful allies in Congress. Right up until China entered the Korean War, and he finally gave President Truman what he needed to politically justify the General being removed from command.

美国本可以做得比50年代那时多得多。他们只是决定不这样做，全世界都应该感谢他们决定不在（当时）极度贫困的韩国引发第三次世界大战。
中国在朝鲜战争中没有打败美国，他们打败的是道格拉斯·麦克阿瑟，这是有区别的。美国达到了它进入韩国的目的，即使这没有达到麦克阿瑟想要达到的目的。的确，麦克阿瑟几乎可以作为一个案例，来研究将军们作为总司令应该如何向美国总统负责。麦克阿瑟没做到，因为他在国会有强大的盟友。直到中国加入朝鲜战争，他终于给杜鲁门总统提供了他所需要的政治理由，证明这个将军被免职是合理的。

Sectuemo Glub
I could conclude a conclusion was a Occidental wanna commandeer or conquer any country any area.
from the Columbus since or so 1500s to conquer and colonize the South America and africa. to massacre the thousands of millions for Indians started that timeline.
and England with France to fight for the colony which German and Japan likewise to slaughter and colonize the world of weak country.
please remember the new of system will instead your Occidental so-called law of the jungle is out.
so the china will give the new law rather than your the weaks are the prey by the strongs.
please get it and remember fucking shit about what's arrogance and racism and hegemony is over.

我可以得出这样的结论：西方人想占领或者征服任何经过的国家和地区。
从16世纪左右，哥伦布开始征服和殖民南美洲和非洲。屠杀成千上万的印第安人开始了这个时间表。
以及，英国和法国为殖民地而战斗，而德国和日本也同样屠杀和殖民了世界上的弱国。
请记住，新的体制将取代你们西方所谓的丛林法则。
所以，中国会给出新的规则，而不是你们的弱肉强食。
请接受它并记住，傲慢、种族主义和霸权主义的混账玩意已经结束了。

Sam King
North Korea is the real Korea, guess where the original capital city is. The real Korea tried to take back it's invaded territories from the US, hence the war. US wanted not just south of the 38th parallel but also the North and part of China.
That's when China stepped in, kicked the US out of China and North Korea. It was probably one of the US most embarrassing war losses considering their military advantages.

北朝鲜才是真正的朝鲜，猜猜原来的首都在哪里。真正的朝鲜试图从美国手中夺回被其侵略的领土，因此爆发了战争。美国不仅想要三八度线以南的地方，还想要北方和中国的一部分。
这时中国介入，把美国赶出了中国和朝鲜。考虑到他们的军事优势，这可能是美国最令人尴尬的战争损失之一。