[2021-07-10]外网评论区：中国已经说得很清楚了，中国受西方欺凌的日子已经一去不复返

 
wood123abc123
The West is sending warships and warplanes close to China. Yet they accuse China of aggression. How irrational is this !

西方国家派遣军舰和战斗机接近中国。然而，他们却指责中国“侵略”。这得多反逻辑啊！

absolutecasserole1
Stop looking at it from a rationality lens. Start looking from a 'do whatever it takes to win and maintain the status quo' lens.

不要再从理性的角度看待它了。从“不惜一切代价赢得胜利并维持现状”的角度开始看待问题。

TserriednichHuiGuo
Exactly.
You don't reason with fascist states and those with a fascist mindset because they don't operate on a rational basis but rather they operate on an emotional basis.

没错。
你不能与法西斯国家和那些具有法西斯思想的国家讲道理，因为他们的运作方式不是基于理性的，而是基于情感上的。

absolutecasserole1
Tbh, there's nothing more rational than ensuring you stay at the top.
Asians need to start thinking this too.

说实话，没有什么比确保你保持领先更理性的了。
亚洲人也需要开始思考这个问题。

wood123abc123
I am interested to know how people in USA and the West think about China.
China does not intend to defeat anyone in anyway , nor surpasses any country. China just wants to improve itself .
China focuses on development and co-operation. With it's huge population, the economy naturally grows bigger over time.
So why should USA and the West be hostile to China ?

我很想知道美国人和西方人是怎么看待中国的。
无论如何，中国不打算打败任何人，也不打算超越任何国家。中国只是想提高自己。
中国注重发展和合作，由于拥有庞大的人口，经济自然会随着时间的推移而增长。
那么，美国和西方为什么要对中国怀有敌意呢？

folatt
The US does not want to share power.
Canzuk does not want to lose power.
And the EU believes every word the US says and think they share a special bond with the US.

因为美国不想分享权力。
因为Canzuk国家不想失去权力。（译注：Canzuk-加拿大，澳大利亚，新西兰，英国）
欧盟相信美国说的每一句话，并认为他们与美国有着特殊的联系。

terafunker
Believe me, it's a strange situation here in the US. The media here love to sneak in an angle to subtly (or overtly) blame China for any problem. And the Xinjiang genocide trope is dropped in as added ammunition any time blaming China doesn't hold up as an argument by itself. People here don't know our own history of genocide, slavery, violence, and imperialism beyond an extremely cursory understanding, and so it's easy to level accusations at other countries (especially ones that rival us economically and politically) without worrying about it being seen as hypocritical by the wider audience.
Thing is, Americans generally were indifferent to China before its economy started heating up to the point of threatening US hegemony. Were China willing to be subservient to US interest like Japan and SK, it would be seen as our greatest ally and a beacon of progress regardless of what was going on internally. But because China is determined to follow its own self interests and ideological direction that competes with or contradicts US interests, the country is lambasted in the US media and policy with levels of evidence that would make a supermarket tabloids shy away.

相信我，美国的情况很奇怪。这里的媒体喜欢偷偷摸摸地(或公开地)把任何问题归咎于中国。当指责中国的说法本身无法成立的时候，类似的说法就会被扔进去作为补充弹药。这里的人们不知道我们美国自己的种族灭绝、奴隶制、暴力和帝国主义的历史，除了极其粗略的理解之外，所以很容易对其他国家(特别是那些在经济和政治上与我们竞争的国家)进行指责，而不用担心被更广泛的观众视为虚伪。
问题是，在中国经济开始升温到威胁美国霸权的地步之前，美国人通常对中国漠不关心。如果中国愿意屈从于美国的利益，就像日本和韩国，那么无论他们国内发生了什么，都将被视为我们最大的盟友和进步的灯塔。但是，由于中国决心追随自己的利益和意识形态方向，与美国的利益相抵触或相反，这个国家就受到了美国媒体和政策的猛烈抨击，其证据水平足以让一家超市小报避而远之。

msdos_kapital
I mean I'm probably not representative of the typical American but I'm quite pleased that China is ascendant and I hope they fucking wreck American imperial hegemony asafp. It will obv be better for the world and, in the long run, us.

我可能不代表典型的美国人，但我很高兴中国正在崛起，我希望他们能尽快正式摧毁美国的帝国霸权。从长远来看，这对世界和我们都有好处。

DietGlorious
Im in the extreme minority in America, but a strong, capable China makes the world safer.
Because... Im sorry, but the conditions on the ground in America are so toxic, it is going to take a few generations to unlearn a lot of fucked up shit and we just do not have enough time for that.
China MUST be strong and the global south MUST rise.
Because whatever the USA is now is primed and ready to be 1930s/40s Germany. I thought the Bush era after 9/11 was draconian and bad. This modern shit is some scary fucking shit. We are talking desperate imperialist/colonial violence.
Also to note, crime is getting REAL BAD here as the politicians and capitalists are doing everything they can to not have to REALLY pay for or fix anything locally except pump up military and police to beat down the masses.
From my view; I can only hope that when it comes to a head, the rest of the world is wise enough to contain in every direction, America's last mad push for imperialist loot.

我在美国是少数派，但是一个强大有能力的中国会让世界更加安全。
所以... 我很抱歉，但是美国当地的情况非常恶劣，这将需要几代人来忘记许多操蛋的东西，而我们没有足够的时间。
中国必须强大，南半球必须崛起。
因为不管美国现在是什么，它已经准备好成为20世纪30/40年代的德国。我认为911之后的布什时代是残酷而糟糕的。这个现代的狗屁东西真他妈的恐怖。我们谈论的是绝望的帝国主义/殖民主义暴力。
还需要注意的是，这里的犯罪现象越来越严重，因为政客和资本家们正在尽他们所能，除了鼓动军队和警察来镇压群众之外，他们不必真正为地方上的任何事情买单或修理。
在我看来，我只能希望，到了关键时刻，世界其他国家有足够的智慧，能够在各个方向遏制美国对帝国主义掠夺的最后疯狂推动。

Kaeshmiri
Contrary to what many believe, majority Westerners don't possess critical thinking. They're textbook definition of brainwashed. Whats actually funny is that they believe they're free thinkers while the rest of the world isn't.
The reality is that they think what they're told to think by their media and politicians. Ask any China bashing Westerner his views and he'll regurgitate the same talking points you see in their media and from their politicians.
Look at the countries that are deeply unpopular in US right now (and this is proven by multiple polls)- Iran, China, Russia, NK. Not a coincidence that these are also the nations that are constantly criticized by their media and establishment.

与许多人相信的相反，大多数西方人并不具备批判性思维。他们的洗脑是教科书般的定义。真正有趣的是，他们相信自己是自由思想者，而世界上其他人不是。
现实情况是，他们只是按照媒体和政客告诉他们的那样去思考。如果你问任何一个抨击中国的西方人他的观点，他会重复你在他们的媒体和政客那里看到的相同的论点。
看看目前在美国非常不受欢迎的国家(多项民意调查已经证明了这一点)：伊朗、中国、俄罗斯、朝鲜。这些国家也经常受到媒体和机构的批评，这并非巧合。

DietGlorious
Yeah. We are unstable as fuck and we just dont know it yet. And there is not enough good reasoning and material reality to get that other half to reconsider their view.
One half wants to teach the rest of the world how to be progressive at the end of a gun and the other half is a full blown reality denying death cult.

是的。我们他妈的不稳定，只是我们还不知道。而且没有足够好的理由和物质现实，来让另一半重新考虑他们的观点。
一半的人想要教导世界上其他国家如何在枪口下保持进步，而另一半人则是一个完全否认现实死亡的邪教。

Michael_Dukakis
As things get worse here economically people will cling onto the dumbest ideas like "STOP THE STEAL".

随着(美国)这里经济形势的恶化，人们会坚持诸如“停止偷窃”这样愚蠢的观点。

Quality_Fun
exactly. it's the country that produced trump and his supporters. we all saw how adamant trump supporters were and still are in their support of him. nothing could change their minds. it's the same with china and the us's perceived enemies, and it isn't just trump supporters who are like this.
this steadfast stubbornness is also clearly a weakness.

完全没错。是这个国家产生了特朗普和他的支持者。我们都看到了特朗普的支持者有多么的坚定，现在仍然支持他。什么也改变不了他们的想法。对中国和美国所谓的敌人也是如此，而且不只是特朗普的支持者会这样。
这种坚定不移的顽固显然也是一种弱点。

TserriednichHuiGuo
It's good to remind them that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction now and again.

最好时不时提醒他们一下伊拉克拥有大规模杀伤性武器。

14yearsalurker
They think whatever the CIA outlets and mainstream media owned by the bourgeoisie want them to think. They don't have much of a brain of their own.

无论中情局和资产阶级的主流媒体想让他们怎么想，他们就怎么想。他们没有自己的大脑。

_everynameistaken_
They're hostile because this is such a unique situation. China has a huge market for Capitalist interests, a wealth of resources and is still massive source of labour and production for the world. Due to this, and it's sheer size, China focusing on its own growth and development will naturally result in the decline of the American empire and other Imperialist powers.
Even more so with the BRI creating the infrastructure and trade routes for mutually beneficial trade and growth for those involved.
The Imperialists have no choice but to be aggressive lest they decline and fail.

他们之所以怀有敌意，是因为这是一个非常特殊的情况。中国拥有巨大的资本主义利益市场，丰富的资源，仍然是世界劳动力和生产力的巨大来源。正因为如此，加上中国的庞大规模，中国专注于自身的增长和发展，自然会导致美帝国和其他帝国主义国家的衰落。
更重要的是，一带一路创造了基础设施和贸易路线，为参与其中的各个国家提供了互利的贸易和增长。
帝国主义者别无选择，只能采取挑衅的态度，以免衰落和失败。

NEEDZMOAR_
not even status quo, just maximize profits. its always about profit.

甚至不是维持现状，而是利润最大化，利润永远是最重要的。

Altruistic_Astronaut
The US (and West) love to project what they are doing onto China. Just in 2020 to now we have seen every single accusation of the US against China get thrown right back in their face.

美国(和西方)喜欢把他们的所作所为影射到中国身上。从2020年到现在就这样，我们看到美国对中国的每一个指控都原封不动地甩回他们的脸上。

RespublicaCuriae
The West is sending warships and warplanes close to China. Yet they accuse China of aggression.
This is essentially the playground bullying method called "stop hitting yourself" when the bully forces the victim to hit him/herself.

回复：西方派遣军舰和战斗机接近中国，但是他们却指责中国的“侵略”行为。
这实际上是一种被称为“不要再打你自己”的校园欺凌方法，当欺凌者强迫受害者打他/她自己的时候。

Comrade_writer
That is just a characterization that greatly underrates the threat presented by the US.
How about you call a spade a spade?
Violating International laws, starting wars of aggression, rampant promotion of racial supremacy.
Would you also characterise Nazi invasion of France and Russia as "bullying"? How about you have the balls to call out an attempt to power grab the world for what it is - global aggression and being a global threat to millions of lives.

你那只是一种描述，严重低估了美国带来的威胁。
你有话直说怎么样？
违反国际法，发动侵略战争，大肆宣扬种族至上。
你是否也认为纳粹入侵法国和俄罗斯是“欺凌弱小”？你不如大胆把“企图夺取世界权力”喊出来如何，美国的全球性侵略，对全球数百万生命构成威胁。

RespublicaCuriae
My point was to express how immature the West is.

我的意思是要表达西方有多么不成熟。

papayapapagay
This is essentially the decadent playground bullying method called "stop hitting yourself" when the bully forces the victim to hit him/herself.
Using school bully analogy its the good looking jock with no brains that constantly badgers, flexes his biceps and pushes the late bloomer nerd, who's good at everything, just wants to be successful and has just started hitting the gym hard 😂

回复：这实际上是一种被称为“不要再打你自己”的校园欺凌方法，当欺凌者强迫受害者打他/她自己的时候。
用学校恶霸来比喻，美国是一个英俊的运动员，没有大脑，不断地欺负他人，弯曲他的二头肌，推搡着大器晚成的书呆子，这个书呆子擅长一切，只是想要成功，刚刚开始在健身房努力锻炼。

Jealous_Struggle2564
They’re actually trying to provoke China into doing something so the Americans have an excuse for their war.

他们实际上是在试图挑衅中国做点什么，这样美国人就有了发动战争的借口。

Serinous
Do they want to test the DF missiles?

难道他们想测试一下东风导弹吗？

Ruhani777
Hey, it's target practice. Imagine all your landing ships getting sunk before they can even offload troops.

嘿，这是打靶练习。想象一下，你所有的登陆舰在还没来得及卸下部队时，就被击沉了。

caidicus
I fear how a confrontational attitude will work with the west, but China has long been within its rights to demand better treatment from the west.
The west needs to stop viewing and treating China as some meek "oriental" that can be used and exploited at their pleasure.
China is strong, it is giving strength to all of its citizens, it is resisting the west's version of capitalism where the absolute richest and most powerful suck the life out of everyone else, capture the government, control the media, and lead the masses into poverty.
I have high hopes for China's future because of how well it is being governed and how it continues (the government) to pass along its benefits to its citizens.
Long live China.

我担心这种对抗性的态度会对西方产生什么影响，但长期以来，中国一直有权要求西方给予更好的待遇。
西方需要停止将中国视为一些温顺的“东方人”，可以随心所欲地利用和剥削。
中国很强大，它正在给予所有公民力量，它正在抵制西方版本的资本主义——绝对最富有和最有权力的人吸取他人的生命，控制政府，控制媒体，并导致大众陷入贫困。
我对中国的未来抱有很高的希望，因为中国的治理状况很好，而且中国政府将继续把自己的利益传递给其公民。
中国万岁。

TserriednichHuiGuo
I fear how a confrontational attitude will work with the west
That's exactly how you deal with anglos, they see anything else as a sign of weakness.

回复：我担心这种对抗性的态度会对西方产生什么影响
这就是你对待盎格鲁人的方式，在他们看来，其他任何举动都是软弱的表现。

fidelsimp
I haven't felt this way ever but I feel as though I'm living through very important history. I think we are going to see a huge challenge to US hegemony over the next 50 years or so and hopefully a loosening of the west's imperial hold on the rest of the world.
Unfortunately that will almost certainly lead to worsening austerity for me personally since I live in the US but there's always the hope that could lead to a boom in class solidarity.

我从来没有过这种感觉，但是我觉得我好像正在经历一段非常重要的历史。我认为，未来50年左右，我们将看到美国霸权面临的巨大挑战，希望西方帝国对世界其它地区的控制能够松动。
不幸的是，对我个人来说，这几乎肯定会导致更严重的紧缩，因为我生活在美国，但是总会有希望在阶级团结之下带来繁荣。

AscendChina
So US, TiaWan, Japan will be attacking China East while US giving orders to India to attack China West...
Seems more and more Covid was 100% CIA biovirus to collapse China economy and stop global travel and create the sort of artificial demand destruction so when finally US strike hot kinetic war it would lessen the global blows of supply chain disruption now that the majority of the world cannot travel and are working from home. It would also explain the mrna vaccine forced on its domestic population, perhaps America is preparing another round of biovirus this time more strategically targeting Chinese genotypes and plus the CyberPolygon drill aka false flag in July is starkly similiar to Event 201 simulations... maybe this month the US explodes a high level EMP to knock out China power grid, then get its vassals Japan, Korea, etc to cut sea cables to China to isolate China from global internet... Then Amerikkka will also round up all ethnic Chinese in USA and throw in gas chamber...
Those who think USA is not this evil nor this crazy aint seen whats about to coming

所以，美国、台湾、日本将向东攻击中国，而美国则下令印度向西攻击中国...
似乎越来越多的人认为新冠病毒百分百是中情局的生物病毒，目的是让中国经济瓦解和停止全球旅行，并创造一种人为的需求破坏，所以当最终美国发动热战，这将减轻全球供应链中断的打击，现在世界上大多数人不能旅行且在家里工作。这也可以解释强迫在其国内人口身上接种mRNA疫苗的原因，也许这次美国正在准备新一轮的生物病毒，更具战略性地瞄准中国的基因型。再加上7月份的CyberPolygon演习，又名假旗行动，与模拟的“201事件”非常相似... 也许这个月美国会发射高能电磁脉冲摧毁中国的电网，然后让其附庸国日本、韩国等切断通往中国的海上电缆，将中国与全球互联网隔离... 然后美国还将把所有在美国的华人集中起来，扔进毒气室...
那些认为美国没有这么邪恶或没有这么疯狂的人，还没有看到将要发生什么。

orange1414141414
this is conspirancy nonsense.
If the us did that then the us will cripple its own economy and cause a global recession.
plus ww3 wont be good for the enviornment especially climate change concerns and would not only fuck over china but would fuck over the us in the long run.
and if the covid 19 was a man made attack by us then that wouldnt explain how the us utterly fucked up containing it in its homeland. Certainly if it was manmade by the us then they would control it in their territory, but they didnt.
and for the biological warfare and literal holocaust and imperialst stuff if the us did that the entire world opinion would turn against the us or at least would be alienated to the point a lot of countries would refuse to help the us.
And even if the us gets a first strike alongside its allies, it wont get all of the nukes, and china will launch these nukes and the us knows it.
like the us is evil but this is beyond idiotic even for the usa.

这是胡说八道的阴谋论。
如果美国这样做，那么美国将削弱自己的经济，引发全球衰退。
另外，第三次世界大战对环境没有好处，特别是气候变化问题，从长远来看，这不仅会伤害中国，也会伤害美国。
如果新冠病毒是我们人为的攻击，那也不能解释为什么美国在自己的国家里控制得完全一塌糊涂。当然，如果它是美国人造的，那么他们在自己的领土上就会控制住了，但是他们没有。
而对于生物战，大屠杀和帝国主义之类的事情，如果美国这样做了，整个世界舆论会转而反对美国，或者至少会被疏远到许多国家会拒绝帮助美国的地步。
而且，即使美国与其盟国一起首先发动了核打击，它也不会摧毁所有的核武器，然后中国将发射所有这些核武器，美国知道这一点的。
就像美国是邪恶的，但这甚至对美国来说，也太愚蠢了。

yaycarina
For capitalists, climate change and the environment are not even factors.

对于资本家来说，气候变化和环境甚至不是因素。

orange1414141414
true but capitalists care about money. And rapidy increasing climate change and enviornmental disaster wouldnt be good for buisness. (tho dont get me wrong the capitalists dont really give a shit about the enviornment judging from our current climate crisis but i think even they know rapidly increasing climate change and enviornment disaster would utterly fuck over their profits and thus be undesirable)

没错，但资本家在乎的是钱。气候变化和环境灾害的快速恶化对建筑业不利。(不要误会我的意思，从我们目前的气候危机来看，资本家们并不真的在乎环境，但我认为，即使是他们也知道迅速恶化的气候变化和环境灾难会彻底抹掉他们的利润，所以这是不可取的。)

TserriednichHuiGuo
Capitalists are usually very shortsighted, that's why in the long run they always lose, in their control a country will inevitably lose to climate change.
I would argue that climate change is actually good for the capitalists since they would easily be able to sell essentials at a higher price especially in highly complacent populations like in the US.

资本家通常非常短视，这就是为什么从长远来看他们总是输，在他们的控制下，一个国家将不可避免地输给气候变化。
我认为，气候变化实际上对资本家有利，因为他们可以轻易地以更高的价格出售必需品，尤其是在像美国这样高度自满的人群中。

orange1414141414
except at the same time they would also get negative effects of international markets failing.
While that is true the capitalists would sell essesntials at a higher price which would gain more profits for the capitalists if that profit is negated by the losses gained from international market chaos, then it would not be good for the capitalists at all for any positives gained for the capitalists would become easily countered by the negative consequences.
aka the capitalists get no gain from climate change for all possible gains are countered by negative losses

但同时，它们也会受到国际市场衰退的负面影响。
诚然，资本家会以更高的价格出售必需品，这会带来更多的利润，但如果利润被国际市场混乱带来的损失所抵消，那么这对资本家就一点好处都没有了，因为资本家获得的任何好处都会很容易被负面后果所抵消。
也就是说，资本家从气候变化中得不到任何好处，因为所有可能的好处都被负面损失抵消了。

TserriednichHuiGuo
That's because you're looking at the long term, the capitalists only care about what they get in the short term.
For them the quickest buck is the best.

这是因为你着眼于长期，而资本家只关心他们在短期内能得到什么。
对他们来说，最快赚到的钱是最好的。

DietGlorious
The only part that is a point against you is that a large swath of the American population is contrarian as a first principle. Being told by experts to stay inside and wear masks is MAKING them do the exact opposite. They are proud, rowdy, and dumb.

唯一反对你的一点是，大多数美国人把逆向投资作为首要原则。专家告诉他们要呆在室内，戴上口罩，结果却恰恰相反。他们骄傲、吵闹、愚蠢。

orange1414141414
yes but even with that the american gov still hasnt gone to ww3 yet and still hasnt decided to go to the full deep end of potential bad actions. Dont get me wrong the american public is filled with idiots cough mccarythism but even with that if we look at stuff like the height of the cold war the american gov still managed to avoid ww3, and the us limited their actions if you were a first world country(tho the third world countries got fucked) While the american public is filled with irrational idiots, the actual american gov seems to be capable of restraining the public to a certain degree. If it didnt then ww3 and nuclear armageddon and other forms of crisis would have already happened during the 60s-70s, and we would either be dead or never have been born at all.

是的，但即便如此，美国政府仍然没有发动第三次世界大战，也没有决定全面采取潜在的不良行动。不要误解我的意思，美国公众充满了白痴，咳咳，麦卡锡主义，但即使如此，如果我们看看冷战的高峰，美国政府仍然设法避免第三次世界大战，如果你是第一世界国家，美国限制了自己的行动（尽管第三世界国家被草了），虽然美国公众充满了不理性的白痴，但实际上，美国政府似乎有能力在一定程度上限制公众。如果不是这样的话，那么第三次世界大战、核战争以及其他形式的危机早在60年到到70年代就已经发生了，我们要么死了，要么根本就不会出生。

jorvis_nonof
If the us did that then the us will cripple its own economy and cause a global recession.
They don't care about that.
and for the biological warfare and literal holocaust and imperialst stuff if the us did that the entire world opinion would turn against the us or at least would be alienated to the point a lot of countries would refuse to help the us.
The US controls global media. The US can blame any disease outbreak on any countrys and most of the world will buy that explanation, since they watch US media like CNN for their world news.
China has long neglected the media space to its own detriment.

回复：如果美国这样做，那么美国将削弱自己的经济，引发全球衰退。
>他们才不关心这个呢。
回复：而对于生物战，大屠杀和帝国主义之类的事情，如果美国这样做了，整个世界舆论会转而反对美国，或者至少会被疏远到许多国家会拒绝帮助美国的地步。
>美国控制着全球媒体。美国可以把任何流行病爆发归咎于任何国家，而世界上大多数人都会接受这种解释，因为他们看CNN等美国媒体的世界新闻。
中国长期以来忽视了媒体空间，这对自己不利。

orange1414141414
for your first comment, i mean surebut the us elites do care about winning. And if they wanted to win Im certain they would care about minimizing the effects of the economic cripple and etc to make sure america wins. But instead like for example regarding covid 19 if it was a plan by the us gov why instead of saying covid was real and addressing the crisis earlier, the us gov instead pretended it didnt exist and etc. If the us gov had addressed it earlier and said it was real, they would have still embroiled with china and at the same time utterly minimized the negative economic and political effects of covid crisis in america and thus gain a large advantage over china, but instead they didnt.
And additionally besides that theres still the issue of nuclear warfare. Like i believe the us global elite still do care about nuclear warfare not because they care about humanity but because theres literally nothing to be gained with nuclear warfare. What will nuclear warfare produce except a desolate hellscape where both nations are utterly destroyed..(and before ya say the us first strike i just cant see how a us first strike would decimate the chinese nuclear capibilaties. If the us sent nukes chinese rader woudl immediately detect that and the chinese would immediately send counter nukes at the us).

对于你的第一个回复，我的意思是，当然，但是美国精英确实关心胜利。如果他们想获胜，我肯定他们会关心尽量减少经济衰退等的影响，以确保美国获胜。但是相反的，比如说新冠病毒，如果它是美国政府的一个计划，为什么美国政府不说新冠病毒是真实的，而是假装它不存在，等等。如果美国政府早点处理这个问题，说这是真的，他们仍然可以和中国纠缠，同时将新冠疫情对美国经济和政治的负面影响降到最低，从而获得对中国的巨大优势，但是他们没有这样做。
除此之外，还有核战争的问题，就像我相信的那样，美国全球精英仍然关心核战争，不是因为他们关心人类，而是因为从字面上讲，核战争没有任何好处。除了两个国家都被彻底摧毁成荒凉的地狱之外，核战争还会产生什么呢... (在你说美国的第一次核打击之前，我看不出美国的第一次核打击怎么能摧毁中国的核能力。如果美国向中国发射核武器，中国雷达会立即察觉，然后中国会立即向美国发射对抗核武器。）

TserriednichHuiGuo
The elites don't care about "winning" lol, they aren't Trump like figures.
They care most about profit and if that means world war or climate change then they'll pursue that.
You're acting as if they care about anything other than profit.

精英们才不关心“胜利” 哈哈，他们不是特朗普那样的人物。
他们最关心的是利润，如果这意味着世界大战或气候变化，那么他们就会追求利润。
你表现得好像他们除了利润之外还关心别的什么似的。

orange1414141414
except if that winning ensures continued profit and continued power then they would care about winning
the us rich economic control and political power basis no matter how much they try to move factories overseas is still reliant on the usa.
and thus their interest relies on the us to win so they could continue their profit making power
Im not saying they care about america from a nationalistic perspective, im saying they care about america because they utterly rely on america for their political and economic power and seeing it fail would fuck over these companies ability to make profits.

但是如果胜利确保了持续的利润和持续的权力，那么他们就会关心胜利。
美国丰富的经济控制和政治权力基础，无论他们如何努力把工厂转移到海外，仍然依赖美国。
所以，他们的利益依赖于美国的胜利，这样他们就能继续他们的盈利能力。
我不是说他们从民族主义的角度去关心美国，我是说他们关心美国，是因为他们完全依赖美国的政治和经济实力，看到美国失败会破坏这些公司的盈利能力。

terafunker
I think you might be giving American leadership too much credit here. Might be worth looking at some of the decisions we've made as a country over the past few decades that were obviously going to backfire but were pushed anyway.

我认为你可能过于相信美国的领导能力了。也许你得看看我们作为一个国家在过去几十年里所做的一些决定，而这些决定显然会带来反效果，但无论如何都被推动了。

orange1414141414
yes but even then the american leadership always had a limit that they wouldnt cross, like nuclear Armageddon. the anglo is willing to do a lot of stupid shit but those stupid shit usually were things that had consequences that would slowly appear way long after the action happened, or the consequences are isolated mainly to the foriegn countries. And additionly the anglo even at their worst would also not choose actions that would have had extremely terrible and immediate consequences for them like nuclear warfare. Dont get me wrong the anglo is stupid but pursuing biological warfare, internment camps and nuclear armagedon in our current political enviornment would be utterly economic and politically suicidal and the modern anglos know that.

是的，但即便如此，美国领导人也总是有一个他们不能跨越的界限，比如核大战。盎格鲁人愿意做很多蠢事，但这些蠢事通常是在行动发生很久之后，才会慢慢显现出来的结果，或者结果主要是孤立于其他国家。除此之外，即使是在最糟糕的情况下，盎格鲁人也不会选择像核战争那样会对他们造成极其可怕和直接后果的行动。不要误会我的意思，盎格鲁人很愚蠢，但在我们当前的政治环境中寻求生物战、拘留营和核大战将是彻底的经济和政治自杀，现代盎格鲁人知道这点。

TserriednichHuiGuo
It's funny that you think the rich who control the US care for any of that, if they did they wouldn't have hollowed out their country since the reagan years, this level of obliviousness is not acceptable.
and for the biological warfare and literal holocaust and imperialst stuff if the us did that the entire world opinion would turn against the us or at least would be alienated to the point a lot of countries would refuse to help the us.
Were you born yesterday? The US has the most powerful propaganda apparatus in the world.
And the US has done plenty of idiotic things.

有趣的是，你认为控制美国的富人会关心这些，如果他们关心的话，他们就不会在里根时代把自己的国家掏空了，这种程度的遗忘是不能接受的。
回复：而对于生物战，大屠杀和帝国主义之类的事情，如果美国这样做了，整个世界舆论会转而反对美国，或者至少会被疏远到许多国家会拒绝帮助美国的地步。
你是昨天才出生的吗？美国有世界上最强大的宣传机器。
美国也做了许多愚蠢的事情。

TserriednichHuiGuo
The rich are incredibly short sighted to the point of incompetence.

富人们目光短浅到了无能的地步。

orange1414141414
Also while the rich are shortsighted to the point of incompetence is a statement i agree with there was always a limit to their incompetence. If there was no limit then ww3 would have happened during the cold war, the korean and vietnam war could have gone nuclear but it didnt why because besides profit the rich are also motivated by self preservation.

尽管富人目光短浅到了无能的地步，但我同意他们的无能总是有限度的说法。如果没有限度，那么冷战期间就会发生第三次世界大战了，朝鲜战争和越南战争可能会发展成核战争，但这并不是为什么，因为除了利益之外，富人还有自我保护的动机。

msdos_kapital
the US is both evil enough and crazy enough but, I suspect, not capable enough (and also probably not stupid enough, and hard as that is to believe)

美国够邪恶，又够疯狂，但我怀疑，它的能力还不够（而且可能还不够蠢，尽管这很难让人相信）

Ruhani777
A first strike on China would spell the end for the US. I mean, the US is already in decline, something like this would make it fall right off a cliff. Russia, the only other adversary with significant nuclear strike capabilities, will be sure to offer the second strike response in kind. They would rather do this since nuclear weapons appear to have lost their ability to deter such attacks. There would be no point to delaying the inevitable and succumbing to an eventual capitalist onslaught.
Obviously, we should be worried about nukes. If nukes ever fly I'm more than willing to bet the US would goad India into launching a limited strike against China. Obviously, China retaliates and India is obliterated, but China would sustain significant damage and this could make an invasion of China from the east possible. Even then, I honestly can't see how this doesn't spiral into an all out thermonuclear war. Anybody claiming that they possess the ability to neutralize second-strike capabilities is delusional. A part of me believes that the Indian regime, as terrible as it is, still cares about self-preservation and would like to develop its economy peacefully (after having been embarrassed by its smaller neighbor Bangladesh).
A more realistic fear is seeing American nukes falling into the hands of christian dominionists. These absolutely insane people would rather see their wet dreams of a biblical apocalypse come to fruition than let China trample over their gOd gIvEn rIgHt to enslave and subjugate.
All-in-all, I see the United States collapsing and balkanizing as a more real possibility than a suicidal first-strike.

对中国的第一次核打击，将意味着美国的终结。我的意思是，美国已经在衰落，像这样的事情会让它直接掉下悬崖。另一个拥有强大核打击能力的对手俄罗斯，肯定会以同样的方式进行第二次核打击。他们宁愿这样做，因为核武器似乎已经失去了威慑此类袭击的能力。拖延不可避免的事情，并最终屈服于资本主义的冲击是没有意义的。
显然，我们应该担心核武器。如果核武器真的发射了，我敢打赌，美国一定会刺激印度对中国发动有限的打击。显然，中国会进行报复，印度会被彻底消灭，但中国将遭受重大损失，这可能使从东方入侵中国成为可能。即便如此，我真的不明白这怎么会演变成一场全面的热核战争。任何声称他们有能力抵消二次核打击能力的人都是在妄想。我部分认为，尽管印度政权很糟糕，但它仍然在意自我保护，希望和平发展其经济(在被其较小的邻国孟加拉国弄得难堪之后)。
更现实的恐惧是，看到美国的核武器落入基督教统治者的手中。这些绝对疯狂的人宁愿看到圣经启示录的梦想成真，也不愿让中国践踏“他们的上帝”赋予的奴役和征服的“权利”。
总而言之，我认为美国崩溃和巴尔干化的可能性，比自杀式的第一次核打击更为现实。

Comrade_writer
India can't be convinced to do any suicidal stuff, India is one of the most corrupt countries in the world, the whole system is about politicians and industrialists pocketing the small amount of wealth in the huge country. Because of that vested interest, India can't handle military pressure regardless of what they say. India is like America on steroids in that regard.
An American WMD attack can't be ruled out for reasons like you say, there are genuinely crazy delusional leaders among them, and their ideology of a "chosen few" going to "heaven" making them not really care about lives of their own citizens.
China has been hard at work for decades making nuclear defenses most likely in the low probability of such a character gaining control of US WMDs. Even though 1000s of nukes cannot all be intercepted, nuclear proof bunkers can hold enough people to keep civilization surviving.

印度不会被说服去做任何自杀式的事情，印度是世界上最腐败的国家之一，整个体制就是政客和实业家在这个庞大的国家攫取少量的财富。由于这种既得利益，印度不管他们说什么都无法应对军事的压力。在这方面，印度就像打了类固醇的美国。
美国发动大规模杀伤性武器袭击的可能性，不能像你说的那样因为某些原因而被排除，他们当中有真正疯狂妄想的领导人，他们的“被选中的少数人”进入“天堂”的意识形态让他们根本不在乎自己公民的生命。
中国几十年来一直在努力，使核防御最大化，以防当这种人物获得控制美国大规模杀伤性武器的低概率情况发生时。尽管1000多枚核武器不可能全部被拦截，但是防核掩体可以容纳足够多的人来维持人类文明的生存。

Op_Anadyr
A more realistic fear is seeing American nukes falling into the hands of christian dominionists. These absolutely insane people would rather see their wet dreams of a biblical apocalypse come to fruition than let China trample over their gOd gIvEn rIgHt to enslave and subjugate
Hey good thing the US Air Force isn't completely run by fundamentalist evangelicals....

回复：更现实的恐惧是，看到美国的核武器落入基督教统治者的手中。这些绝对疯狂的人宁愿看到圣经启示录的梦想成真，也不愿让中国践踏“他们的上帝”赋予的奴役和征服的“权利”。
嘿，好消息是，美国空军并不完全由福音派原教旨主义者掌管...

TserriednichHuiGuo
balkanizing
I doubt this would happen tbh.

巴尔干化
老实说，我觉得这种情况不一定会发生。

qaveboy
I'm not sure the other countries would risk nuclear devastation just on the whim of the US. Japan could be bombed back to the 40s if it actually launched an attack.

我不确定其他国家会仅仅因为美国的一时兴起而冒着核毁灭的风险。但如果日本真的发动攻击，它可能会被炸回40年代。