[2021-07-07]网友热议：中国首次披露2033年载人登陆火星计划，和建立火星永久居住基地计划

blainthepain
Finally, been waiting for another space race

终于，我一直在等待的另一场太空竞赛。

user888111
My money is on China.

我把赌注压在中国上。

clyde2003
The Chinese and Americans competing to colonize the solar system. Who would have thought Firefly was a documentary?

中国人和美国人竞相殖民太阳系。谁会想到科幻片《萤火虫》是一部纪录片呢？

DarthPorg
Didn't the US and China form a union or something though in Firefly?

在《萤火虫》中，美国和中国不是结成了联盟吗？

Yablos
My understanding is that it is heavily implied that there was a catastrophic failure on "Earth that was". So they had to team up.

我的理解是，这在很大程度上暗示着“曾经的地球”上发生了灾难性的失败。所以他们不得不联合起来。

Glabstaxks
Firefly was developed from a history book from the future . I can attest to this since I am a time traveler

《萤火虫》是从一本未来的历史书改编的。我可以证明这点，因为我是一个时间旅行者。

d_pyro
You know how I know you're lying? A time traveler wouldn't go back in time to the middle of a pandemic.

你知道我怎么识破你在撒谎吗？一个时间旅行者不会回到疫情时期。

NauticalWhisky
Didn't the US and China form a union or something though in Firefly?
Yes, they effectively quit being enemies as the human race became a multi planet species.

“在《萤火虫》中，美国和中国不是结成了联盟吗？”
是的，当人类变成一个多星球的物种时，他们就不再是敌人了。

Severase
Ok, time to rewatch firefly...

好了，是时候重看《萤火虫》了...

HaloGuy381
Gonna be interesting to see. China has the edge on raw industrial output and available cash, the US has more assets financially, more experience making spacecraft, and the only agency on Earth that has put humans on another body. Both start on a comparable technological field (unlike the Cold War version where the USSR had a serious head start on the tech, but lacked the sheer amounts of money and industry the US could throw at the problem).
Also, last space race, the US was at the height of its global power and toward the end of a golden age of post-WW2 wealth. This time, China is a rising superpower while the US is either declining or sputtering erratically as its people fight over the steering wheel. Without a focusing martyr like Kennedy, I suspect the US wouldn’t rally to such a race enough to match the singular focus of the Chinese leadership.

看来很有意思。中国在原始工业产出和可用现金方面有优势，美国在财政上有更多的资产，在制造航天器方面有更多的经验，而且是地球上唯一一个把人类放在送到另一个天体的机构。两者都是从类似的技术领域开始的(不像冷战时期的苏联在技术上领先一大步，但缺乏美国可以投入的大量资金和工业)。
此外，上一次太空竞赛时，美国正处于全球实力的巅峰，并接近二战后财富黄金时代的尾声。这一次，中国是一个正在崛起的超级大国，而美国要么正在衰落，要么在它的人民争夺方向盘的过程中，磕磕碰碰。如果没有像肯尼迪这样专注的殉道者，我觉得美国不会在这场竞赛中团结起来，无法与中国的专注度相匹敌。

LiveForPanda
NASA and the US Space industry invest WAYYYYYY more than China does. It's not even a race. The only advantage China may have is its political determination and a relatively younger team of scientists and engineers.

美国宇航局和美国航天工业的投资远远超过中国。这甚至不是一场比赛。中国唯一的优势可能是其政治决心和相对年轻的科学家和工程师团队。

someguy233
The only advantage China may have is its political determination and a relatively younger team of scientists and engineers.
That is a very strong advantage though, don’t underestimate that.
“We choose to go to the moon, and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard”. - JFK
When it comes to space exploration, determination is just as core of a component as any rocket engine.

“中国唯一的优势可能是其政治决心和相对年轻的科学家和工程师团队。”
这是一个非常强大的优势，不要低估了这点。
“我们选择登上月球，做其他事情，不是因为它们很容易，而是因为它们很难”——肯尼迪
当涉及到太空探索时，决心就像任何火箭发动机一样是核心的组成部分。

dog_fart_tacos
Not just determination, but completely unencumbered by time wasting political decision-making, getting derailed by fights over budget, having one technology canceled so a politician can direct funds elsewhere. When China makes a decision, it is essentially done. When America makes a decision, everyone has to be on edge every election cycle.

不仅仅是决心，而且完全不会被浪费时间的政治决策所拖累，不会因预算争端而脱轨，不会因政客可以将资金用于其他地方而取消一项技术。当中国做出决定的时候，基本上就已经完成了。当美国做出决定时，每个选举周期大家都要提心吊胆。

myrddyna
having one technology canceled so a politician can direct funds elsewhere.
the US's growing greed has hindered so much progress in this way.

“因政客可以将资金用于其他地方而取消一项技术”
美国日益增长的贪婪阻碍了这方面的许多进步。

willstr1
We choose to go to the moon, and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard piss off the Russians
FTFY

“我们选择登上月球，做其他的事情，不是因为它们很容易，而是因为它们能狠狠惹毛俄罗斯人”
帮你改正下。

puja_puja
I mean if you think the US going to the moon pissed off the Russians I wonder how pissed off the US was learning that the USSR put the first satellite, man, woman, and space station in orbit, among other achievements.

我的意思是，如果你认为美国登上月球激怒了俄罗斯人，我想知道美国得知苏联把第一颗人造卫星、男人、女人和空间站送入轨道以及其他成就时，有多么生气。

BlackMetalDoctor
While the achievements you name are typically the most-remembered, the USSR’s space program was first to achieve a lot more notable successes:
Over its 38-year history, the Soviet program achieved:
The first intercontinental ballistic missile (R-7)
First satellite (Sputnik 1)
First animal in Earth orbit (the dog Laika on Sputnik 2)
First human in space and Earth orbit (Yuri Gagarin on Vostok 1)
First woman in space and Earth orbit (Valentina Tereshkova on Vostok 6)
First spacewalk (Alexei Leonov on Voskhod 2)
First Moon impact (Luna 2)
First image of the far side of the Moon (Luna 3) and uncrewed lunar soft landing (Luna 9)
First space rover (Lunokhod 1)
First sample of lunar soil automatically extracted and brought to Earth (Luna 16)
First space station (Salyut 1)
Further notable records included the first interplanetary probes: Venera 1 and Mars 1 to fly by Venus and Mars, respectively, Venera 3 and Mars 2 to impact the respective planet surface, and Venera 7 and Mars 3 to make soft landings on these planets.
If you go by the headlines and news broadcasts of the day, the US was incredibly pissed about the USSR’s space program achieving so many ‘firsts’. Especially Sputnik and Yuri Gagarin’s respective Earth-orbits.
Arguably, the US might not have landed astronauts on the moon as soon as it did, were it not for the USSR’s program racking up so many ‘firsts’ in the Space Race’s early years.

虽然你提到的那些成就通常是人们印象最深刻的的，但苏联的太空计划首先取得了许多更为显著的成就：
在其38年的历史中，苏联的太空计划取得了以下成就:
第一枚洲际弹道导弹(R-7)
第一颗人造地球卫星(卫星1号)
第一只进入地球轨道的动物(苏联卫星2号上的狗莱卡)
第一位进入太空和地球轨道的人类(东方1号上的尤里·加加林)
第一位进入太空和地球轨道的女性(东方6号上的瓦莲京娜·捷列什科娃)
第一次太空行走(上升2号上的阿列克谢 · 列昂诺夫)
第一次月球撞击(月神2号)
第一张月球背面的照片(月神3号)和无人月球软着陆(月神9号)
第一辆太空漫游车(月球车1号)
第一次自动提取并带回地球的月壤样本(月神16号)
第一个空间站(礼炮1号)
更值得注意的记录，包括第一个星际探测器：分别飞越金星和火星的金星1号和火星1号，撞击各自行星表面的金星3号和火星2号，以及在这些行星上进行软着陆的金星7号和火星3号。
如果你看一下当时的头条和新闻报道，你就会发现美国对苏联的太空计划取得如此多的“第一”感到非常愤怒。尤其是人造卫星和加加林各自的地球轨道。
可以说，如果不是因为苏联的太空计划在早期太空竞赛中创造了许多的“第一”，美国可能不会那么快地将宇航员送上月球。

n00bst4
If determination was more a factor of success than money and knowledge, the USSR would have been first on the moon.

如果决心比金钱和知识更是成功的因素，那么苏联将是第一个登上月球的国家。

Disastrogirl
America can’t do things that are hard anymore.

美国已经不能再做那些困难的事情了。

tcsac
I'm confident Space-X is as determined if not more so than Chinese leaders.
And at the moment they are printing cash doing it, with at least a decade head start.

我相信，SpaceX的决心不亚于中国领导层。
目前，他们正在印钞票来实行太空计划，它至少领先了十年。

TheRealSlangemDozier
China owns Africa now.

中国现在拥有非洲。

TheRealSlangemDozier
Africa is emerging as a huge telecommunications market. Africa has abundant resources. China is builds African infrastructure. Same thing Spanish, English, and Americans have done in the past.

非洲正在成为一个巨大的电信市场。非洲有丰富的资源。中国正在建设非洲的基础设施。过去，西班牙人、英国人和美国人都在做同样的事情。

boisonberrysoup
It's no contest. I'm calling it now. China wins hands down. The US can't even keep its infrastructure from falling apart. It's not racing anywhere.

毫无疑问。我很确定。中国轻而易举地取胜了。美国甚至无法阻止其基础设施的崩溃。这不是什么比赛。

NightNord
With the global economy ran by a bunch of individualistic nations and heavily based on rampant consumerism? Getting the fuck out of the doomed planet is frankly the more reliable option

随着全球经济由一群个人主义国家掌控，并且严重依赖于猖獗的消费主义？坦白说，离开这个该死的星球是更可靠的选择。

thymeraser
I'm currently reading the Three Body Problem trilogy.
There are several times where the author puts forth the idea that humans that go into deep space cease to be humans the same as us. Since they are completely separated from Earth with no way to return and in order to survive must abandon all normal rules of human civilization.
The moon doesn't quite come to that level, but over time I can see how the species might diverge.

我现在正在读《三体》三部曲。
作者曾多次提出这样的观点：进入深空的人类不再是和我们一样的人类了。由于他们与地球完全分离，无法返回，为了生存，他们必须放弃人类文明的一切正常规则。
登陆月球并没有达到那个水平，但是随着时间的推移，我可以看到人类物种是如何分化的。

Phlintlock
Just finished that trilogy, favourite thing I ever read.

刚刚看完《三体》三部曲，我最喜欢的书。

thymeraser
I'm in the middle of book three, so not quite done yet. It's such a different perspective versus a lot of scifi.

《三体》我正看到一半，还没看完。相对于许多科幻小说，视角完全不同。

thymeraser
I think throughout they show how the UN/Earth views everyone else as expendable for them. And really how each group was in it for themselves.
So in the Three Body Problem some ships are far outside the solar system with no plans to return. They recognized that they no longer felt a part of humanity, or at least not the same type of humans, and went from there.
Some interesting ideas in that series.

我认为自始至终，都展示了联合国/地球是如何将其他所有人视为可以牺牲的对象。以及每个小组是如何各自为战的。
所以，在《三体》中，一些飞船远离太阳系，没有返航计划。他们意识到，从此之后，他们不再觉得自己是人类的一部分了，或者至少不再是同一类型的人类。
这个系列中有一些很有意思的想法。

TheFuzziestDumpling
Nothing to add other than holy fuck that Battle of Darkness. Great series.

除了那场他妈的黑暗战役，没有什么可以补充的了，伟大的系列小说。

thymeraser
If we one day have permanent settlements there. People born there who have never been to earth. Why would you care about anything back 'home'? And then from there as we push further out etc.

如果有一天我们在那里永久定居。出生在那里的人从未来过地球。那你为什么要关心“家乡”的事情呢？然后从那里开始，我们继续向外推进之类的。

Ok-Significance-5995
Why would you care about anything back 'home'?
Why do people today care about traveling anywhere on earth?
Why did humans ever care about going anywhere else than where they are today?
200 years ago, most people never even left the town they were born in. Such a life is unthinkable today.
People in the past regularly traveled for months - if not years - on sea just to see some distant place. Going from Earth to Mars or from Mars to Earth literally takes less time than it took to sail from England to China.
Just think about one of the most commonly sailed routes in history:
To get tea from China, you would have to sail 5 months from England... and then another 5 months back from China to England. If you were really fast and put everything you had on speed, you could make the journey in 99 days.
Think about that. Seriously. Let it sink in how ridiculously long that is.
Then think about the fact that the journey was significantly more arduous than going on a rocket to Mars with people having to work hard to keep the ship intact, risking their life every time there's a storm, getting sick with no modern medicine, and being attacked by pirates.
Then keep in mind that people back then had no means of telecommunication and also no modern entertainment.
If you are born on Mars in the 22nd century, you will be more connected to earth than China was to England less than 400 years before your time.
Earth will always be the birthplace of humanity and no matter where humans go, as long as they remember and care about their history, humans will always care about earth.

你为什么要关心“家乡”的事情呢？
为什么现在的人们会关心在地球上的任何地方旅行？
为什么曾经的人类会关心去任何其他地方，而不是他们现在所在的地方？
两百年前，大多数人甚至从未离开过他们出生的城镇，这样的生活在今天是不可想象的。
过去，人们经常在海上旅行几个月，甚至几年，只是为了看看一些遥远的地方。从地球到火星或者从火星到地球的时间，比从英国到中国的时间要短。
想想历史上最频繁的航线之一：
要想从中国买到茶叶，你需要从英国航行5个月... 然后再从中国航行5个月回到英国。如果你真的很快，把你一切都用在加速上，你可以在99天内完成这段旅程。
仔细想想，说真的，深深感受下这漫长得夸张的时间。
然后想想这样一个事实：这段旅程比乘坐火箭去火星要艰难得多，人们必须竭尽全力才能保持船体的完好无损，每次遇到风暴都是冒着生命危险，生病的时候没有现代药物，还会遭到海盗的袭击。
然后请记住，当时的人们没有通讯的手段，也没有现代的娱乐。
如果你出生在22世纪的火星上，你与地球的联系，将比中国与英国的联系更加紧密。
地球将永远是人类的发源地，无论人类走到哪里，只要他们记住并关心他们的历史，人类将永远关心地球。

poo_fart
Oh man I just finished Death's End and my brain is goop and my heart is shattered.
Easily one of the best sci-fi series I've ever read.

噢，兄弟，我刚读完《死神永生》 ，我的脑袋一片混乱，极度惊愕。
毫无疑问，这是我读过的最好的科幻系列小说之一。

computer_d
Longest break I took from reading was after finishing the series. I was finished so amazed that I found little interest in others books for a couple of months. Even almost a year later there are times that I'll wistfully play out some of the scenes in my mind, and trying to imagine how they'd look.

我中断阅读时间最长的一次，就是在读完《三体》系列之后。读完后，我感到非常震惊，以至于在几个月的时间里，我发现自己对其他书几乎没有什么兴趣。甚至在差不多一年后的有些时候，我还会在脑海中回想这些场景，并试图想象它们会是什么样子。

thymeraser
I'm still in the middle of Death's End. Been loving this series, it's such a deviation from most scifi. I found referring to A Brief History of Time several times.

我还读《死神永生》。我一直很喜欢这部科幻系列，它与大多数科幻小说有很大的不同。我发现好几次提到《时间简史》。

scout_and_dill
Just finished it myself. Another recurring theme is that when governments decide they must invest in huge technological projects--to save humanity--there are resource shortages for ordinary people. Is China or the US ready to enforce even lower standards of living for their population in order to win a space race? Interesting question.

我刚刚读完。另一个反复出现的主题是，当政府决定必须投资于巨大的技术项目以拯救人类时，普通民众就会面临资源短缺。为了赢得太空竞赛，中国或美国是否准备让人民过上更低的生活水平？有趣的问题。

TizACoincidence
We already diverged just by living in different countries

我们仅仅因为生活在不同的国家，就已经产生分歧了

CoderDispose
We've been theorizing a sky ladder for over 100 years now. It's not the craziest idea

我们已经研究天梯理论一百多年了。这不是最疯狂的想法。

thymeraser
It's pretty far off, and may never come to fruition, yes. I think the bigger point is that China is serious about space exploration and the West needs to wake up.

这是相当遥远的，而且可能永远不会有结果，是的。我认为更重要的一点是，中国对太空探索的态度是认真的，西方国家需要清醒过来。

iyoiiiiu
Wake up from what? Space exploration is a good thing.

从什么中清醒过来？太空探索是一件好事。

doctor_morris
West needs to wake up.
SpaceX is building a Starship. 😉

西方需要清醒过来。
SpaceX正在建造一艘星际飞船。

Alphasquad001
How long do you think the West has been sleeping

你认为西方已经睡了多久？

AdmiralGraceBMHopper
Neither is having their own manned station up within 10 years or doing a robotic moon rock return mission within 5 years or having a Mars orbiter and rover in the same mission in 5 years, yet all of those were accomplished.

无论是在十年内建立自己的载人空间站，还是在五年内完成机器人月球岩石返回任务，还是在五年内完成火星轨道器和漫游车的同一任务，所有这些都已经实现了。

Tonaia
Yeah, but you can't just casially ignore physics and material tensile strength.
I'd love to be prven wrong, but unless they develop a new material that is both lightweight, uberstrong, and capable of taking impacts from orbital debris without a loss of strength, it just isnt possible.

是的，但是你不能就这样忽视物理和材料的抗拉强度。
我很希望我错了，但是除非他们开发出一种新材料，既轻便又超级坚固，并且能够承受轨道碎片的撞击而不损失强度，否则这是不可能的。

HolyGig
The Soviets did a lunar sample return in 1970 when computers still had vacuum tubes. Really aside from the Mars rover there is nothing China has done that the Soviets didn't already accomplish and they haven't existed for 30 years.
You would expect some advancement just given where computers and tech in general has progressed to today

1970年，苏联人在计算机还有电子管的时候，返回了一份月球样本。除了火星漫游车，中国做过的事情没有什么是苏联没有完成过的，而他们已经30年前就不存在了。
考虑到计算机和技术总体上已经发展到今天的程度，你可能会期待一些进步。

AdmiralGraceBMHopper
You're downplaying the science behind it. No one had ever done a completely remote moon rock sample retrieval from the far side of the moon that required a repeater satellite to be positioned in a unique halo orbit. And while the Russian Luna 16 brought back mere grams, the Chang'e 5 brought back a whopping 3.8 lb of samples.

你在淡化它背后的科学性。从来没有人从月球背面进行完全远程的月球岩石采样，这需要一颗中继卫星定位在一个独特的晕轨道上。俄罗斯的月神16号只带回了几克样本，而嫦娥5号却带回重达3.8磅的样本。

Yancy_Farnesworth
Not particularly, the technology to do what China has done has existed for decades. They simply haven't been done because there was no funding/insufficient desire to do it. When the Soviet Union and the US had its space race, most of the technology didn't even exist yet and both sides pioneered a lot of new technology to do what they did.
I mean, great that China did it. And it's impressive that they've done it largely on their own due to the restrictions on space tech transfer to China. But they haven't done anything really groundbreaking yet.

并不是特别的，中国所做的技术已经存在了几十年。因为没有足够的资金/没有足够的意愿去做，所以这些技术一直没有被实现。当苏联和美国进行太空竞赛时，大部分技术甚至还不存在，双方都开创了许多新技术来做他们所做的事情。
我的意思是，很高兴中国做到了。令人印象深刻的是，由于对中国的太空技术转让的限制，中国在很大程度上是自己完成的。但是他们还没有做任何真正开创性的事情。

AdmiralGraceBMHopper
L2 Earth-moon Lagrange point halo orbit was completely theoretical until China was the first to attempt it.

L2地月拉格朗日点晕轨道，在中国首次尝试之前，它还完全是理论上的。

Holy_Spear
I live in a city that used to churn out NASA engineers and some of the best engineers in the world, the local economy and education system was built on a solid bedrock of Union labor and American manufacturing..
Unfortunately that has not been the case since the 70's because decades of Neoliberalism has destroyed my city. Now our largest factories are owned by the Japanese. The Japanese thought they were getting a sweet deal with a skilled cheap labor force and tax breaks, little did they know the effects of Neoliberalism destroyed my city over a decade before they got here and so it takes 2-3 American workers to do what it takes 1 Japanese worker to do in Japan because the people here are unskilled, undisciplined, and uneducated. And not so surprisingly, the decline also decimated the power of unions and union membership in my city, and this city now has one of the lowest average incomes and highest crime rates in the US, and there's no viable long term solutions to turn things around at the local, state, or federal level.
The US is in a state of decline because our political and economic systems are broken, our political leaders are incompetent and corrupt, and our business leaders are entitled, selfish, and arrogant.

我生活在一个曾经培养出美国宇航局工程师和世界上最好的工程师的城市，当地的经济和教育体系是建立在工会和美国制造业的坚实基础上的...
不幸的是，自70年代以来，情况就不是这样了，因为几十年的新自由主义已经摧毁了我的城市。现在我们最大的工厂都归日本人所有了。日本人认为他们从熟练的廉价劳动力和税收优惠中得到了好处，但他们不知道新自由主义的影响，在他们来到这里之前的十多年就已经摧毁了我的城市，所以需要2到3个美国工人才能做到1个日本工人在日本所做的事情，因为这里的人们没有技能、没有纪律、也没有受过教育。不足为奇的是，这种衰退也削弱了我所在城市的工会和工会成员的权力，这个城市现在是美国平均收入最低、犯罪率最高的城市之一，而且在地方、州或联邦层面上，没有可行的长期解决方案来扭转局面。
美国正处于衰退状态，因为我们的政治和经济体系被破坏了，我们的政治领导人无能和腐败，我们的商业领导人有权有势、自私和傲慢。

Alphasquad001
In fact, Japan is not well, Japan must keep buying U.S. Treasuries as a way to suppress the inflation caused by U.S. domestic money. Japan was stabbed by the U.S. on the Plaza Accord, and since then the whole country's economy has come to a standstill. The West has been playing the game of making money lying down by dividing other countries into resource countries, cheap labor countries, and financially harvestable countries, and harvesting all countries except the West through finance. Western governments and capitalists have always thought they were smart - the dirty work can be left to other countries, as well as through the financial can be harvested, why not do it? But in reality Western governments lack long-term planning and the electoral system has turned the country into a game to please the people instead of pursuing real progress. As Kissinger recently said, "It's not China's problem, it's our problem.

其实，日本的情况也不好过，日本必须继续购买美国国债，以抑制美国国内货币引起的通货膨胀。日本在《广场协议》中被美国捅了一刀，从此整个国家的经济陷入停滞。西方国家一直在玩这样的游戏：把其他国家分为资源国家、廉价劳动力国家和金融可收割国家，然后通过金融收割除西方以外的所有国家。西方政府和资本家一直认为自己很聪明，肮脏的工作可以留给其他国家，以及可以通过金融收割来获利，这样干有何不好呢？但实际上，西方政府缺乏长期规划，选举制度已经把这个国家变成了取悦人民的游戏，而不是追求真正的进步。正如基辛格最近所说“这不是中国的问题，而是我们的问题。”

thymeraser
Ever since we started gutting our manufacturing and sending it to China. So we send them hard currency in exchange for cheap goods. They in turn take the money and expand their military. All the while sending their brightest students to University in the West getting scholarships to learn, and then return to China after we trained them.

自从我们开始砍掉我们的制造业，并将其转移到中国。所以我们用硬通货来交换廉价商品。反过来，他们拿走这笔钱，扩大他们的军事力量。一直以来，他们把最聪明的学生送到西方的大学拿奖学金学习，然后在我们培训他们之后，回到中国。

Alphasquad001
Why doesn't the West want to continue to grow? Because it doesn't need to anymore, and the West can make money lying down by classifying other countries as resource countries, cheap labor countries, and financially harvestable countries. But when one doesn't work hard, one is caught up by countries that do, and so are the countries. That's why Kissinger recently said, "This is our own problem, not China's." Remember, no one is forcing the West to sleep, the West is sleeping on its own.

为什么西方国家会不想继续发展？因为已经不需要了，西方国家可以躺着通过把其他国家分类为资源国家、廉价劳动力国家和金融可收割国家来赚钱。但是，如果一个人不努力工作，他就会被那些努力工作的国家的人赶上，这些国家也是如此。这就是为什么基辛格最近说“这是我们自己的问题，不是中国的。”记住，没有人强迫西方睡觉，而是西方自己在睡觉。

Money_dragon
return to China after we trained them
Honestly a big part of that was kind of a own-goal by the West. I think a lot of international students would have loved to stay in the West for work, but there weren't enough visas for skilled labor (which college grads would have been)
So many bright graduates went back to their home countries and started companies, and over the years created more employment opportunities

“在我们培训他们之后，回到中国”
老实说，这其中很大一部分是西方的乌龙球。我认为许多国际学生会喜欢留在西方工作，但是没有足够的技术工人签证(大学毕业生本该有)
许多聪明的毕业生回到自己的国家创办了公司，多年来创造了更多的就业机会。

Crz_Kemo
The US banned NASA from cooperating with the Chinese in 2011. That’s why the Chinese are coming up with their own stuff - space station, Mars rover, etc.

2011年，美国禁止NASA与中国合作。这就是为什么中国人计划建造他们自己的东西——空间站、火星漫游车等等。

thymeraser
Yes, so unless we are cooperating we will be fighting each other in space.

没错，所以除非我们合作，否则我们将在太空中互相争斗。

Tinie_Snipah
China has no intention of militarising space. China and Russia are constantly proposing international treaties to reduce militarisation of space and the US keeps vetoing it. It is America that is pushing space war not China or Russia

中国无意将太空军事化。中国和俄罗斯不断提出减少太空军事化的国际条约，而美国一直在否决。推动太空战争的是美国，而不是中国或俄罗斯。

readyou
Not just in space but also on earth.

不仅是在太空，在地球上也是这样。

thymeraser
I have a feeling Military and Space budgets may have some overlap in the future

我有预感，未来军事和太空预算可能会有一些重叠。

Blenderx06
We can't even maintain our basic infrastructure here in Earth.

我们甚至不能在地球上维护我们的基础设施。

blackpharaoh69
We were going to fix the road but someone said taxes so half a building fell down instead

我们本来要修路的，但有人说要交税，所以半栋楼就塌了。

kontekisuto
The Moon base would make more sense

月球基地会更有意义

thymeraser
Yes, that is a more logical first step. I think Mars sounds more sexy so it gets the public engaged.

是的，这是更合乎逻辑的第一步。我认为火星听起来更迷人，所以它能吸引公众的注意力。

onyxengine
If china comes up with an system that can get colonists to mars and keep them alive, while provisioning colonists with tools for mining, farming, exploration, and construction, they could make serious inroads. All you need is one good road, shelter, and food production.

如果中国能建造出一个系统，让开拓者登上火星并维持他们的生命，同时为开拓者提供采矿、耕作、探索和建设的工具，他们可能会取得重大进展。你所需要的只是一条好的道路、住所和食物生产。

thymeraser
Yep, the first one there has many advantages. In my opinion, China is more willing to make sacrifices to get there first, whereas the West is more likely to hem and haw to make sure everything is safe or perfect and then come in second place, or third.

是的，成为第一有很多好处。在我看来，中国更愿意做出牺牲来第一个到达那里，而西方国家则更有可能犹豫不决，以确保一切安全或完美，然后排在第二或第三。

TheLost_Chef
It's not even about whether things are safe or perfect, not anymore. No politician wants to allocate money for space exploration anymore. China has money to spare for all sorts of investments, space just happens to be one of them.

这甚至不再是关于是否安全或完美了。再也没有政客愿意为太空探索拨款了。中国有足够的资金来进行各种各样的投资，太空恰好就是其中之一。

thymeraser
Yes that is another angle. I feel like they do have some advantage in that sense. They can just try a bunch of different things and then pick what works.

是的，这是另一个角度。我觉得他们在这方面确实有些优势。他们可以尝试一系列不同的事情，然后选择有效的。

onyxengine
Progress leads to innovation and can invalidate old business models, I won’t speak for the entirety of the west, but in the US it is clear they rather freeze progress indefinitely in exchange for absolute economic control. The rich want your taxes, your labour, and your money for goods and services. They want to decide what good and services you can get and at what price and quality, without any standards or considerations.

进步产生创新，并可能导致旧的商业模式失效，我不是说整个西方，但在美国，很明显他们宁愿无限期地中止进步，以换取绝对的经济控制。富人想要你的税收，你的劳动，你的钱来购买商品和服务。他们想要决定你能得到什么样的商品和服务，以什么样的价格和质量，而没有任何标准或考虑。

_Alecsa_
I think that the myth of western safety is always a strange one. in the first space race, more astronauts than cosmonauts died.
the stereotype of soviet/Chinese brute force method vs the west's accurate calculations is also a huge myth. during the space race the Soviet couldn't build rockets large enough to propel a shuttle so had to make a delicate and precise system to light multiple smaller thrusters simultaneously.

我觉得西方的“安全”谣言总是很奇怪。在第一次太空竞赛中，牺牲的宇航员比宇航员还多。
苏联/中国“蛮力”方法 vs 西方“精确”计算，这样的刻板印象，也是一个巨大的谣言。在太空竞赛期间，苏联无法制造足够大的火箭来推动航天飞机，所以不得不制造一个精密而精确的系统，来同时点燃多个较小的推进器。

NightNord
China is more willing to make sacrifices to get there first, whereas the West is more likely to hem and haw to make sure everything is safe or perfect and then come in second place, or third.
Historically that's what (gambling human lives) the west did to win the moon race
West is capitalist and individualistic at its core, so these fundamental basis will prevail and override any ideological constructs built on top.

回复：“中国更愿意做出牺牲来第一个到达那里，而西方国家则更有可能犹豫不决，以确保一切安全或完美，然后排在第二或第三”
从历史上看，这反而是西方为赢得登月竞赛所做的（赌上人命）
西方的核心是资本主义和个人主义，所以这些基本原则占据上风，并凌驾于任何建立在上面的意识形态概念。

Ok-Significance-5995
The West doesn't give a shit about human life while China considers the right to life paramount. Just look at China's track record with Covid 19 and compare.
The West makes more Sacrifices yet achieves less. That's due to incompetent leadership produced by the anti-democratic capitalist system we refer to as "liberal democracy".

西方毫不在乎人命，而中国认为生命权是至高无上的。看看和比较中国在新冠疫情方面的记录就知道了。
西方做了更多的“牺牲”，但收获却更少。这是由于我们称为“自由民主”的反民主资本主义制度，所产生出来的无能的领导。

Famous_Maintenance_5
China's space program has far less causalities than the US so far to get to the point is had, so I am am not sure what you mean by safety. They're taking far less risks than the Apollo program ever did.
But yes, China - without two-party politicians - can consistently fund this program. Look at 'back to the moon' thing in US. Vote in by every republican and cancelled by every democrat in the last 20 years...

到目前为止，中国太空计划的伤亡人数远远少于美国，所以我不确定你所说的安全是什么意思。他们承担的风险远远小于阿波罗计划。
但是，是的，没有两党政客的中国可以始终如一地资助这个项目。看看美国的“重返月球”计划吧。在过去的20年里，每个共和党人都投票表决了，然后被每个民主党人撤销了...

tankpuss
Good job China. I don't care who gets us into space, just get us there.

干得好，中国。我不在乎谁把我们送上太空，只要把我们送上去就行了。

Favela_King
Wouldn’t we, as a species, benefit more if these two super powers joined forces versus competing with each other?

作为一个物种，如果这两个超级大国联合起来，而不是相互竞争，我们不是会受益更多吗？

thymeraser
Makes too much sense.

太有道理了。

growthinvestor123
No we’d rather manufacture concern for a new Cold War while wasting trillions in the Middle East looking for WMD

不，我们宁愿制造对新冷战的担忧，同时在中东浪费数万亿美元寻找大规模杀伤性武器。

FIELDSLAVE
This is right out of science fiction.
You have to admire their ambition.

这完全是出自科幻小说。
你不得不佩服他们的雄心壮志。

deepstankthroat
Why is everyone so stoked on space? Who gives a shit? Living on Mars is 100% worse than anywhere on earth. We can already send military weapons into orbit if we wanted for tactical advantage. The cost of any precious material on Mars would likely never be worth the cost of getting there and back.
Im totally pro China wasting their money, so yeah let’s do it!

为什么每个人都对太空这么着迷？谁在乎呢？火星上的生活完全比地球上任何地方都糟糕。如果我们想要获得战术优势，我们已经可以把军事武器送入轨道。火星上任何珍贵材料的成本，很可能都不值得往返火星的花费。
我完全支持中国浪费他们的钱，所以，来吧，放手做吧！

ForeverYonge
They understand “Red planet” literally

他们从字面上理解“红色星球”

SnowflowerSixtyFour
They just landed their first rover on Mars and haven’t even put somebody on the moon yet. This sounds… hyperbolic. I wouldn’t underestimate China though.

他们刚刚在火星着陆了他们的第一辆漫游车，甚至还没有把人送上月球。这听起来... 很夸张。但我不会低估中国。

Not--Available
The New Space Age will absolutely result in another world war.

新太空时代必将导致另一场世界大战。

usernamewamp
For a country claiming to be a “developing country” in need of foreign aid and assistance they sure have a lot of money to spend on space.

对于一个自称需要外国援助的“发展中国家”来说，他们肯定有很多钱可以花在太空上。

rklab
Hopefully this sparks another space race. As a society, our space exploration has really stagnated. Some good old fashioned competition could hopefully fix this. I just hope this is a space race the US can win.

希望这能引发另一场太空竞赛。作为一个社会，我们的太空探索已经停滞不前了。一些良好的老式竞争有望解决这个问题。我只希望这是一场美国能赢的太空竞赛。

Ahoramaster
This is awesome news. This now guarantees a space race between the US and China with all of the technological benefits and discoveries that comes with it.
Yet all I see here is endless bitterness and fear because it's China instead of the US doing it. Get over yourselves.

这真是个好消息。现在，这就保证了美国和中国之间的太空竞赛，以及随之而来的所有技术利益和发现。
然而，我在这里看到的，只有无尽的痛苦和恐惧，因为这是中国在做的事情，而不是美国。别自以为是了。

Reacher-Said-N0thing
I say let them. Let them make all the expensive research and mistakes, and then we copy their tech when it finally works.

我要说，让他们去做吧。让他们做所有昂贵的研究和试错，然后当他们的技术最终发挥作用的时候，我们就复制他们的技术。

thymeraser
Seems like that would be fair, after all we've let them copy our tech.

看起来很公平，毕竟我们让他们复制了我们的技术。

Dragon-Ritterstein
About fucking time someone did it. Even if it gives China more Resources, building basic Infrastructure and Bases in Space now will be vital to Human Survival in the future.

他妈的是时候有人这么做了。即使给了中国更多的资源，现在建设基础设施和太空基地对人类未来的生存至关重要。

ChoPT
Hopefully this gets us to get our act in gear. Letting China get people on Mars first would be a national embarrassment for us.

希望这能让我们行动起来。让中国先把人送上火星对我们整个国家来说都是一种尴尬。

DJBarzTO
Honestly I have greater hope for China colonizing space than the US. The us is at the mercy of regime changes and public opinion.

老实说，我对中国开拓太空的希望比美国更大。美国受制于政权更迭和公众舆论。

bearmtnmartin
I would not go to Mars on a spaceship built in China.

我是不会乘坐中国建造的宇宙飞船去火星的。

Chrisbee012
wonder where they got all that tech from

不知道他们从哪弄来的所有这些技术

sheeeeeez
to be fair, the Chinese have much more majestic artistry in their architecture compared to the US.
Can we uh... get someone else's government to run the place though?

公平地说，与美国相比，中国人的建筑艺术更宏伟。
我们能不能...呃.. 让别国的政府来管理我们这个地方？

I_eat_dookies
Bro China is trying to make everything China

兄弟，中国想把一切都变成中国

TKK2019
I wish them luck but they can't build a commercial airliner without western help yet (Comac) and they still rely heavily on Russian tech for military.

我祝他们好运，但是没有西方的帮助，他们还不能建造一架商业客机(中国商飞) ，而且他们在军事上仍然严重依赖俄罗斯技术。

Jay_money-sniper
🤡 What a waste of time and money. How bout find a way to stop burning coal first?

真是浪费时间和金钱。先想办法停止烧煤怎么样？

thymeraser
The moon is the logical place. I think Mars is to get people excited, but the Moon needs to be the immediate focus. One step at a time...

月亮是一个合乎逻辑的地方。我认为火星是为了让人们兴奋，但是月球需要成为关注的焦点。一步一步来...

justLetMeBeForAWhile
Will it be an "everybody is welcome" kind of place?

那会是一个“欢迎所有人”的地方吗？

Jerrykiddo
Don’t think the US will be invited. After all the US banned NASA from working with China. But other space agencies frequently work with China, so probably so.

我不认为美国会被邀请。毕竟美国禁止NASA与中国合作。但其他航天机构经常与中国合作，所以很可能是这样。

thymeraser
Signs point to no

有迹象表明不会

0011101000101010
You can blame NASA for not letting China in. They were declined and started their own thing instead.

你可以责怪NASA没有让中国加入。他们被拒绝了，转而开始了他们自己的事业。

meglobob
A new space race between the US vs China will be interesting. I think China may win, the capacity to manufacture 1/3 of planet Earth's stuff gives them a considerable advantage.
US wasted its lead in the space race by basically doing nothing for 50 yrs anyway.

美国和中国之间的新太空竞赛将会很有趣。我认为中国可能会赢，制造地球上三分之一的东西的能力让他们有相当大的优势。
美国浪费了它在太空竞赛中的领先优势，50年来基本上什么都没做。

mng8ng
And they deserve to lose by squandering trillions in pointless wars in the Middle East. Now their crippling debt will bite them in a few years whilst China surges ahead.

他们在中东的无意义战争中挥霍了数万亿美元，活该得输。现在他们沉重的债务将在未来几年内侵蚀他们，而中国正在飞速发展。