[2021-02-28]印外长称当代印度与中国的平行崛起是“人类历史上独一无二的事件”，

vi-va
External Affairs Minister (EAM) S Jaishankar at the 13th All India Conference of China Studies said that India-China’s parallel rise in the contemporary era is a ‘unique happening in the human history’. “The two nations have some similarities, especially of size and history but there is also very interesting contrast in many ways culturally, politically or economically. Both are in the process of building a modern nation-state from a civilized society.

印度外交部长S Jaishankar在第13届全印度中国研究会议上说，印度和中国在当代的平行崛起是“人类历史上独一无二的事件”。“两国有一些相似之处，特别是在规模和历史方面，但在文化、政治或经济方面也存在非常有趣的差异。两者都处于从文明社会建设现代民族国家的过程中。

kankan326
When will Indians realize China and India are not in the same squad

印度人什么时候才会意识到中国和印度不是同一队的。

Dungeness
LOL, "we average to be 10 trillion economy each".

哈哈，“我们平均是10万亿的经济体”。

crankthatskunk
Yeah, India has risen in Jaishanker's back yard.
Indian's think they have risen, when as a matter of fact, they are sinking very rapidly.
socially, politically, and now also economically.

是的，印度已经在Jaishanker的后院崛起了。
印度人认为他们已经崛起，但事实上，他们正在迅速衰落。
社会，政治，现在还有经济。

bshifter
It never gets tired or boring to the ears and eyes of the hopeful Indians. First it was Mumbai to be the next Shanghai, now it is going to replace Hong Kong due to the national security law. There's a big but in the article and that's to build infrastructure so it could compete with Tokyo and Singapore. In Lee Kuan Yew's own words, even he can't fix India.

对于满怀希望的印度人来说，这永远不会让他们感到厌倦或乏味。先是孟买将成为下一个上海，现在由于国家安全法，它将取代香港的地位。文章中有一个很大的“但是”，那就是建设基础设施，这样它就能与东京和新加坡竞争。用李光耀自己的话来说，即使他也无法解决印度问题。

Jackdaws
The similarities are superficial. Too many differences. China can't match India in technology or innovation. It is one thing to build your economy on sweatshops - another to actually build an economy in a more sensible manner.

这些相似之处都是表面的。有太多的差异。中国在技术和创新方面无法与印度相比。建立在血汗工厂上的经济是一回事，而以一种更明智的方式实际建立经济则是另一回事。

khanmubashir
And when other. Member were talking about Indians delusion I was thinking They were hyping it but u showed they were understating ;)

当其他人谈论印度人的妄想时，我以为他们是夸大其词，但你表明，他们是低估 ;)

Jackdaws
When other members were stating about Pakistanis displaying cringe worthy fealty to China, I thought they were hyping but you showed they are understating.

当其他人说巴基斯坦人对中国表现出卑躬屈膝的忠诚时，我以为他们是在夸大其词，但你表明他们是在低估。

IbnAbdullah
Do you really honestly believe that? Do you think the Chinese do not possess the capability to innovate as things stand? Do you think they managed to take advantage of the opportunities provided in the last few decades to build their own companies and tech base without possessing the capacity to manage themselves?

你真的这样相信吗？你认为目前中国人不具备创新能力吗？你认为他们在没有自我管理能力的情况下，成功地利用过去几十年提供的机会建立自己的公司和技术基地吗?

-=virus=-
China may be well ahead in terms of it's economy, poverty alleviation and development but there is only India who is anywhere to be seen with the same growth trajectory and potential. India are held back by the democratic system, China has had no such issues to deal with. There are benefits to having a authoritarian system and a mostly homogeneous Han society largely devoid of religion. India has diversity and factions within the abrahamic systems that thrive here yet are fundamentally opposed to India.
We're doing well considering that handicap.

中国可能在经济、扶贫和发展方面遥遥领先，但是在任何地方也可以看到同样的增长轨迹和潜力的只有印度。印度受到民主制度的阻碍，而中国则没有这样的问题要处理。拥有一个专制制度和一个基本上同质的汉族社会，而且大部分社会没有宗教信仰，这是有好处的。印度在亚伯拉罕体系里有着多种派系，都在这里繁荣发展，但从根本上反对印度。
考虑到这个障碍，我们做得还不错。

IsThisNameAvailable
Correct. But the authoritarian undemocratic set-up under which China has grown has its cons too. Its like a bubble or a balloon which may burst as soon as the pressure crosses a threshold.

正确。但中国发展所依赖的不民主的威权体制也有其弊端。这就像一个气泡或气球，一旦压力超过一个门槛，它就可能破裂。

beijingwalker
LoL, The west has been saying that for at least 40 years already, let India say it for another 40 years.

哈哈，西方已经说了至少40年了，让印度再说40年吧。

kankan326
I have to say you are rational Indian. Most Indians are just proud of their democracy and diversity, especially in religion part. Besides these, there are too many other problems in India social structure and ideology. Unless an Indian version Mao comes out and leads India Cultrure Revolution, there is no way for India to defeat China in almost any field.

我不得不说你是个理性的印度人。大多数印度人只是为他们的民主和多样性感到自豪，特别是在宗教方面。除此之外，印度的社会结构和意识形态还存在许多其他问题。除非印度版的毛出来领导印度文革，否则印度几乎没有办法在任何领域打败中国。

vi-va
I see many Indians in US boasted "Largest Democracy in the world". I thought Indians are very proud of it, no?

我看到许多在美国的印度人吹嘘“世界上最大的民主国家”。我想印度人对此很自豪，是吧？

-=virus=-
Yes it is the largest democracy, a very vibrant and spicy one where power really does lie with the people. It's a beautiful thing but has it's drawbacks too.

是的，印度是一个最大的民主国家，一个充满活力的民主国家，权力确实掌握在人民手中。这是一件美好的事情，但也有它的缺点。

Dungeness
Indians talk more, thus "is anywhere to be seen"; Chinese do more, thus it is 6 times India's size.

印度人说话更多，所以“随处可见”；中国人做得更多，所以是印度的6倍。

-=virus=-
How about just a regular conversation instead of the constant trolling ? I outlined clearly the few points that I think have given China a leg up. No democracy, which is a plus in this case. No diversity, and mostly no religion.. all plusses and positives in terms of taking a country of a billion forward.
As a whole I think the Chinese are probably a more industrious people than Indians but there is no shortage of very smart people here. We have a reasonably successful space program, made our own nuclear weapons without stealing or espionage, we have a powerful armed forces, all manner of other heavy and tech industry... and wield significant soft power.
C'mon man.. lets have some better discussions on this forum.

不如来一次普通的谈话，而不是不停地发牢骚如何？我清楚地列出了几点，我认为这几点帮助了中国。没有民主，这在这种情况下是一个优点。没有多样性，基本上没有宗教信仰.. 这些是带领一个拥有10亿人口的国家向前发展的所有积极因素。
总的来说，我认为中国人可能比印度人更勤劳，但这里并不缺少非常聪明的人。我们有一个相当成功的太空计划，在没有偷窃或间谍活动的情况下制造了我们自己的核武器，我们有强大的武装力量，各种各样的重型和高科技工业... 并拥有重要的软实力。
拜托.. 让我们在这个论坛上好好讨论吧。

Dungeness
You seem to be a reasonable person who wants to have a sensible conversation, no like the guy above you who has been talking about "1000000000 Chinese refugees" for years, nothing worth taking seriously. I do hope he is in the tiny minority in your country that will not be a part of positive force to "talk a country of a billion forward".
For the starter, China and India are two very different countries, though both boasting thousands years history, but China has been a single unified country since 200 BC while India as an unified nation is the modern creation of British legacy. Therefore, the identity has never been an issue for Chinese. The same cannot be said about Indians, thus, the slogan of "unity in diversity".
In thousands of years, Chinese have almost always under a central government led by an Emperor, a Son of Heaven. So its current authoritarian govornance system is just the continuation of Chinese tradition and culture.
The modern China (PRC) largely eliminated the social ills and superstisions that plaqued China for thousands of years from the get-go, though through rather brutal revolution, while India still has to carried its historic and cultural burdens on the way to modernization. Case in point, your still live and well caste system (even among IT professionals in silicone valley) and your lack of land reform. So China is more or less redrawing its bluepint in a sheet of clean paper, but India has to do it on an used canvas.
As you mentioned, Chinese are more industrial minded, and I would add, more rational and materialistic as most Chinese believe in YOLO and want to make the best out of this life. In the other hand, Indians are more merchant minded and "spiritual" as many of you believe in Karma which gives them a reason to sit this life through.
Both countries have abundant talents, while Chinese talents shine in China and India's talents shine in foreign lands, as you said, more visible on world stage. Many of your brightest are making living overseas their live goal. So we have a difference in available talent pools for nation building.
The difference goes on. Let's save it for the next time.

你似乎是一个通情达理的人，希望有一个明智的对话，不像你上面那个多年来一直谈论“10亿中国难民”的家伙，没有什么值得认真对待的。我真心希望他只是你们国家极少数人中的一员，不会成为“推动一个国家向前发展的积极力量”的一部分。
首先，中国和印度是两个非常不同的国家，尽管都有着几千年的历史，但中国自公元前200年以来一直是一个统一的国家，而印度作为一个统一的国家是英国现代创造的遗产。因此，中国人从来都没有身份的问题。对于印度人来说，情况就不一样了，因此，“多样性中的统一”就成了口号。
几千年来，中国人几乎总是处于一个由皇帝，天子领导的中央政府之下。因此，中国现行的威权政府体制只是中国传统文化的延续。
虽然经历了一场相当残酷的革命，但现代中国基本上消除了数千年来困扰中国的社会弊端和迷信，而印度在走向现代化的道路上仍然要承担其历史和文化负担。例如，你们仍然保存得很好的种姓制度（甚至在硅谷的 IT 专业人员中也存在）和你们缺乏土地改革。因此，中国或多或少是在一张干净的纸上重绘蓝图，但印度必须在一张二手画布上这样做。
正如你所提到的，中国人更具工业化思想，我想补充的是，还有更理性和物质主义，因为大多数中国人相信“不虚度人生”，希望尽可能地过好生活。另一方面，印度人更多的是商人的思想和“灵性”，因为你们中的许多人相信因果报应，这给了他们一个理由来度过这一生。
两国人才济济，中国人才在中国大放异彩，印度人才在国外大放异彩，正如你所说，在世界舞台上更加引人注目。你们中的许多最聪明的人正在海外谋求他们的生活目标。因此，我们在可用于国家建设的人才库方面存在差异。
不同之处还有，让我们下次再说吧。

-=virus=-
Don't have a problem with diversity personally but it's never been a strength. How can it be a unifying thing if you have all these factions, some of them with serious conflicts (the Hindu-Muslim bs most obviously) ? I am a fan of some aspects of an authoritarian regime, they get stuff done and are unencumbered by the democratic process. Need to clear a temple or mosque, church etc for a highway project ?,, nope, can't do it, some politician will start making a fuss and a national story, other vested interests jump in with their narratives.. it's bullshite. If I was emperor I would jail such a politician, violently crush any protest, and make a highway for the country.
The BJP/Modi is slightly authoritarian but still has to work within the democratic framework. We can only hope they win elections in every corner of India and push their agenda through, and no it does not include killing millions of muslims.

对于我个人而言，多元化没有什么问题，但这从来都不是一种优势。如果你有所有这些派系，其中一些有严重的冲突(最明显的是印度教和穆斯林之间的冲突)，这怎么可能是一种统一的呢？我是一个专制政权某些方面的粉丝，他们能完成一些事情，并且不受民主进程的阻碍。高速公路项目需要清理寺庙、清真寺或教堂等？不行，做不到，有些政客会大惊小怪，编造一个全国性的故事，其他既得利益集团也会参与其中...这些都是胡说八道。如果我是皇帝，我会把这样的政客关进监狱，用暴力镇压任何抗议活动，来为这个国家修建一条高速公路。
印度人民党/莫迪有点专制，但仍必须在民主框架内运作。我们只能希望他们在印度的每一个角落赢得选举，推动他们的议程，不，这不包括杀害数百万穆斯林。

Leishangthem
y'all can't accept reality,and still blindly tries to copy china based on pure assumptions about china,that's all india has been trying to do for the past decade;copy china.
India is already authoritarian fascist to the core,the political ring controls every whim of the citizen,no international law or order prevails therein.
The Chinese are different breed of humans with very different culture,Indians aren't capable of operating like East Asian with the amount of rectitude,temperament,restrain,regimentation and sense of ethic toward duty in a coordinated society with the highest sets of IQ.East Asians are just wired differently .It's like you are expecting leopards to run like a cheetah because both are cats.India can't simply copy china expecting similar effects.
Anymore of the imposition of this misinterpreted authoritarian rule that you are talking about, would turn into a recipe for great disaster and humanitarian crisis of the highest magnitude. Indians should just learn basic about how to be civilized and how to conduct oneself ,Indians lacks the very rudimentary basic qualities that made the foundation of advanced nations from far east.

你们不能接受现实，仍然只基于对中国的假设来盲目地模仿中国，这就是印度过去十年来一直在做的事情，模仿中国。
印度已经是一个彻头彻尾的独裁法西斯主义者，政治集团控制着公民的一切想法，没有任何国际法或国际秩序在其中盛行。
中国人是不同种类的人，有着不同的文化，印度人不能像东亚人那样，在一个拥有最高智商的协调社会里，以正直、气质、克制、纪律和责任感来运作。这就好像你希望花豹像猎豹一样奔跑，因为它们都是猫科动物。印度不能简单地照搬中国的做法，期望得到类似的效果。
如果你所说的这种被曲解的专制统治继续强加下去，将会变成一场最大的灾难和人道主义危机。印度人应该只是学习如何文明和如何做人的基本知识，印度人缺乏构成远东发达国家基础的最基本的素质。

Chakar The Great
You spoiled the fun for Indians, already some one questioned your nationality. If you say you are Indian next question is going to be religion, , if muslim then definitely Pakistani agent.

你破坏印度人的乐趣了，已经有人质疑你的国籍了。如果你说你是印度人，下一个问题就是宗教，如果你是穆斯林，那么肯定是巴基斯坦间谍。

nahtanbob
land reform in India ?? Do you have any idea of the average or median size of the Indian or Pakistani farm ?

印度的土地改革？你知道印度或巴基斯坦农场的平均或中等规模吗？

Dungeness
It's not the size of farm that matters, it's the idea of "Land to the tiller" that counts.

农场的大小并不重要，重要的是“耕者有其田”的理念。

vi-va
He (@nahtanbob ) has no clue what you are talking about. I don't blame him, Americans are born naive.

他完全不知道你在说什么。我不怪他，美国人生来就天真。

-=virus=-
I like to say we are a civilizational state. The colonial legacy is what it is, the British empire ruled India, and lots of other parts of the world, including, quite famously, the USA, right ?
China is a civilizational state too. It is also almost an ethnostate of the Han people, the land of the Han. Not a lot of diversity, not a lot of religion, these two together make for unity, not the other way around. "unity is diversity" is about the most retarded thing one can believe in, sounds nice, doesn't work in reality.
The caste system is mostly on it's way out, it's illegal to discriminate based on caste and getting rid of it is one of the stated goals of the RSS (of which I'm not a member). The caste system is most prevalent when it comes to arranging marriages, which I'm fine with.. it's really stupid but that is in the personal realm of people's lives. Let them do as they wish with their family affairs.
In conclusion, not denying the existence of the caste system but it is a bit overblown, spl when it comes to bashing India on forums like this.

我想说，我们是一个文明国家。殖民地的遗产就是这样，大英帝国曾统治着印度，以及世界上许多其他地方，包括非常著名的美国，是吧？
中国也是一个文明国家。它也几乎是汉人的民族国家，汉人的土地。没有太多的多样性，没有太多的宗教信仰，这两者共同促成了统一，而不是相反。“团结就是多样性”这是一个人所能相信的最弱智的东西，听起来不错，但在现实中行不通。
种姓制度基本上已经走到了尽头，基于种姓的歧视是非法的，摆脱种姓制度是RSS的明确目标之一(我不是其中的一员)。在包办婚姻方面，种姓制度是最普遍的，我对此没有意见...这真的很愚蠢，但这是人们生活的私人领域。让他们按照自己的意愿处理家庭事务吧。
总而言之，我不否认种姓制度的存在，但是在这样的论坛上抨击印度有点言过其实。

Leishangthem
Countries like korea,taiwan etc totally outstripped india in growth trajectory starting from way behind, even much of south east asia has shown much greater growth trajectory. Even some african nations has better growth trajectory,what India has is 1.3 billion people driving up GDP figures.
Now ,India is held back by democracy? next India is held back by aliens? What about the dozens of other democratic countries that developed?There are literally just 4 nations under communism,and with the exception of China ,the rest aren't actually economic powerhouses.
Religion is an inherent byproduct of Indian genetic makeup and their culture, it the result of this south asian sect for being in existence.
It's true India has diversity,but it's not an excuse for the shitty state,most nations has huge diversity,many of which has far more diversity than India ,singapore is as diverse as it gets yet in comparison to India it's in different league.

韩国、台湾等国家(/地区)在经济增长轨迹上完全超过了印度，甚至东南亚的大部分国家也显示出了更好的增长轨迹。甚至一些非洲国家也有更好的增长轨迹，而印度有13亿人口，这推高了GDP数字。
现在，说印度被民主制约了？那下一个理由是印度被外星人拖后腿了？那么其他几十个发展起来的民主国家呢？实际上只有四个国家处于共产主义之下，除了中国，其他国家实际上并不是经济强国。
宗教是印度基因组成和文化的固有副产品，这是这个南亚教派存在的结果。
的确，印度有多样性，但这不是一个糟糕国家的借口，大多数国家都有巨大的多样性，其中许多国家比印度有更多的多样性。

Leishangthem
India can only make excuses that are just a scratching on the surface against the backdrop of antagonistic reality.
The problem is far deep and almost impossible to overcome ,it's rooted between the inherent trait ,natural impulse of Indians and their cultural by-products.
India has developed compared to at least how it was 30 years ago,but that doesn't mean India has fundamentally changed itself with natural advancement in technology and a progressive outlook. India's development was on the back of interaction with foreign economies,it's totally different than the development of countries like S.Korea , accompanied by technological advancements.
Countries with IQ near 80 doesn't possess the character of a nation with IQ in 105+.
It's very evident how such nations conduct themselves and the way it operates.
The devised Culture and the inherent sense for code of conduct in a nation with avg IQ in the upper 105+ is vastly different and superior than those with inferior quality human resources.
The countries with higher IQ will always operate at higher order ,this is natural calling,that's just how it works.
India might have progressed in infrastructure and various form of development at some phase,but India as a society of people, hasn't actually civilized yet, they might get more educated but lacks the fundamental basics for how to conduct oneself.They can only try to fool others and oneself,that's the limitation.

在现实对立的背景下，印度只能找一些表面上的借口。
这个问题非常深刻，几乎无法克服，它根植于印度人的固有特质、自然冲动和他们的文化副产品之间。
与至少30年前相比，印度已经发展了，但这并不意味着印度已经根本上改变了自己，随着科技的自然进步和前景的进步。印度的发展是建立在与外国经济互动的基础上的，与韩国这样的国家的发展伴随着技术的进步是完全不同的。
智商接近80的国家并不具备智商在105以上的国家的特征。
这些国家的行为方式和运作方式非常明显。
在一个智商平均在105以上的国家，设计出来的文化和内在的行为准则意识相比那些人力资源质量低下的国家，有很大的不同和优越之处。
高智商的国家总是以更高的秩序运作，这是自然的召唤，这就是它的运作方式。
在某些阶段，印度可能在基础设施和各种形式的发展上取得了进步，但是作为一个人类社会，实际上还没有文明化，他们可能会接受更多的教育，但是缺乏基本的行为准则。他们只能试图愚弄别人和自己，这就是局限性。

Jackdaws
An authoritarian system works with people who enjoy being ruled and can't think too much for themselves.

专制的体制适用于那些喜欢被统治，不能为自己考虑太多的人。

rott
Result of too much Cow-Cola.

喝了太多牛尿可乐的结果。

Han Patriot
Serious man, why the fck do they wanna equate themselves to China, they are a supapowa like USA.
You mean like how Brahmins rule Dalits and other Varnas in Hinduism? Lol

说实话，为什么他们要等同于中国，他们是一个像美国的超级大国。
你是说就像印度教里的婆罗门如何统治达利特和其他低种姓的人? 哈哈

Flash_Ninja
What a load of crap
China innovating at a far higher rate than India could even aspire to and they are integrating new technology into their industry and society while most of India struggles with basic plumbing.

真是张口就来
中国的创新速度远远高于印度所能达到的水平，他们正在将新技术融入自己的工业和社会，而印度大部分地区还在为基本的管路系统而苦苦挣扎。

khanmubashir
I just laughed at yr stupid claim of India being technologically superior to china sonny a country USA thinks as its prime competition now u try to cover yr bs :)

我只是嘲笑你宣称印度在技术上优于中国的愚蠢说法，孩子，优于一个美国认为是其主要竞争对手的国家啊，现在你却打算掩盖你的瞎扯 :)

Jackdaws
China only has a huge economy. Technologically superior? In what field?

中国只是有一个巨大的经济体。技术优越？在哪个领域？

bshifter
India has technology and innovation? Why not name them?
Saying India has innovation and technologically superior without backing up with examples is empty talk. Others are calling you out, name them. We would like to see them with our own eyes.

印度有技术和创新，为什么不给它们命名呢？
说印度拥有创新和技术优势，却不举例说明，纯属空谈。其他人都在等你说出这些创新技术的名称。我们希望亲眼看到它们。

FuturePAF
They have to continue maintaining the facade to attract FDI.

为了吸引外国直接投资，它们必须继续保持门面。