[2020-05-04]随着抗议活动持续，密歇根州的新冠死亡率成为美国最高

thatscool22
Has anyone seen those posts showing the cdc.com charts with covid deaths at around 37,000 with pneumonia and flu shown through the week of apr 25th and as of may1? The right wingers are trying to say that the media is lying and the deaths are only at 37,000, not over 60,000. Does anyone have an easy counter argument to that? I keep posting that it’s only through apr 25th and there is a lag time in reporting, that’s why the deaths are only at 37,000 in the chart.

有没有人看到疾控中心网站的图表显示，从4月25日到5月1日的一周里，因肺炎和流感死亡的人数约为37,000人？ 右翼人士说媒体在撒谎，死亡人数只有37,000，而不是60,000。有没有人对此有一个简单的反驳？ 我一直发帖说这只是到4月25日，报告有一个滞后时间，这就是为什么图表上的死亡人数只有37,000人。

BOOFIN_FART_TRIANGLE
Nobody, not the cdc, the government, hospitals, nobody, would benefit from closing the economy for over projecting numbers.
There’s no motive.
These are the same people saying the US government spread covid through chem trails- and are still voting for the leader of that government that did that to them.

没有人会从中受益，包括疾控中心，政府，医院，任何人，会因为高估的死亡数字而从封锁的经济中受益。
没有动机。
同样是这些人说，美国政府通过化学试验传播了新冠病毒，而他们仍然投票给对他们下毒手的政府的领导人。

thatscool22
I have to have a good argument to counter their bullshit. Even Cameron Hanes posted the bullshit in his stories. It’s annoying.

我必须有一个很好的论据来反驳他们的胡说八道。 甚至卡梅隆 · 哈内斯也在他的文章中胡言乱语。 这真烦人。

sheepcat87
They'll say the media is controlled by Dems and the fake news media is hyping up the virus

他们会说媒体是由民主党控制的，假新闻媒体在大肆宣传病毒。

D3adBed
When things are going great, it's because of Trump but when things go bad it's the fault of the Dems. Ask them why Trump has never said "I take full responsibility" for anything that went bad during the last 4 years and always has to blame someone else or something.

当事情进展顺利的时候，是因为特朗普的功劳，但当事情变糟的时候，就是民主党的错。 问问他们，为什么特朗普从来没有对过去4年里发生的任何事情说过“我承担全部责任” ，而且总是要怪罪别人或别的什么。

mlhradio
What's going to happen is that he will get back into his big SUV at the end of the rally, drive back to the suburbs to have dinner with his family. And then two weeks later, his mother starts coughing and has a fever and starts having trouble breathing. He thinks, "but Mom hasn't been outside in weeks! And everyone else in the house is feeling great! What could have happened?"
Takes her to the hospital, she is rushed to the ER with a serious case of COVID-19. He's tested and he has it as well, even though he never showed a single symptom. Everyone else in the house is tested and they come up positive as well. They start tracking down their friends and other acquaintances that have dropped by or visited over the last two weeks, half of them end up testing positive, too, even though no one is showing symptoms more than a sniffle.
And that is how another mini-epidemic in the suburbs starts. Six weeks later, after another round of social distancing imposed by the suburb's mayor, over a hundred new cases and six new deaths, with several people still in the hospital recovering, or trying to recover (and may not).

接下来会发生的事情是，他会在集会结束时回到他的大越野车里，开车回到郊区与家人共进晚餐。 两周后，他的母亲开始咳嗽，发烧，呼吸困难。 他想: “可是妈妈已经好几个星期没出门了！ 屋子里的其他人都感觉很好！ 怎么会发生呢? ”
带她去了医院，她被紧急送往急诊室，确诊患有严重的新冠病毒肺炎。然后他检查了，他也有，尽管他从来没有表现出任何症状。家里的其他人都经过了测试，结果也呈阳性。 他们开始追踪他们的朋友和其他熟人，这些人在过去的两个星期里来过或拜访过他们，其中一半的人最终检测结果也呈阳性，尽管没有人表现出更多的症状。
这就是郊区另一种小型流行病的开始。 六个星期后，在郊区市长实施了新一轮的社交距离之后，又出现了100多例新病例和6例新死亡病例，其中几人仍在医院等待康复，或者正在努力康复(也许不会康复了)。

johnnybiggles
"It's those dirty liberal counter-protester nurses that got us sick!!"

“是那些肮脏的自由主义反抗议者护士让我们生病的! ”

Gerf93
Oh, this brings back memories. I had a class on genocide in the 21st century when I took my degree. In it they showed that rhetoric leading up to almost all genocide included the perpetrators portraying themselves as the rural innocent/clean ones in contrast to their categorization of their victims as urban dishonest vermin living in the dirt. Armenian genocide, Rwandan genocide and of course the Holocaust all had this kind of rhetoric.

哦，这让我想起了往事。 当我拿到学位的时候，我上过一堂关于21世纪种族灭绝的课。 他们在报告中是这样表明，几乎所有导致种族灭绝的犯罪者，都被描绘成无辜清白的人，而把受害者归类为生活在泥土中的城市害虫。亚美尼亚种族大屠杀，卢旺达大屠杀，当然还有纳粹大屠杀都有这样的说辞。

mdavis360
Also in California if they have to take time off for illness, they have to pay for their substitutes out of their own pocket. This happened to my daughters teacher last year after she was in a car accident.

同样在加利福尼亚，如果他们因病请假，他们必须自掏腰包支付代替者的费用。 去年我女儿的老师出了车祸，就发生了这样的事。

JoseaBrainwave
It's more than funding. It's a cultural derision of education and learning.

这不仅仅是钱的问题，这是对教育和学习的文化嘲笑。

Rhaegyn
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
Isaac Asimov
Says it well I think.

“美国存在一种对无知的狂热崇拜，而且一直如此。反智主义的压力一直贯穿着我们政治和文化生活，它被一种错误的观念滋养，即民主意味着‘我的无知和你的知识一样好’——艾萨克 · 阿西莫夫
我觉得说得很好。

westviadixie
"it was gods will..."

”这是上帝的旨意... ”

dejavuamnesiac
It’s time for Michigan to start arresting these wannabes. Imagine if they were black panthers with assault rifles; or college student protesters with daisies?

密歇根州是时候开始逮捕这些效仿者了。 想象一下，如果他们是拿着突击步枪的黑豹党，还是是拿着雏菊的大学生抗议者？
（译者注：黑豹党，1966年创建的一个美国黑人社团，是美国有史以来第一个为少数民族和工人阶级解放战斗的组织之一，他们反对美国政府，黑豹党认为改变世界必须透过对民众的长期组织和动员）

MyAntibody
To paraphrase Dave Chapelle, “the only way to affect any change is for every African American to go out and register.... for a weapons permit.”

套用戴夫•夏佩尔的话说，“影响任何变化的唯一方式，就是让每一个非裔美国人都去注册...申请武器许可证”

Maxpowr9
Yep. Bring back the Black Panthers and see how fast gun control happens.

是的，把黑豹党带回来，看看枪支管制能有多快。

IzzyIzumi
With the current political climate, if this happens at all, there will be an administrative mandate stating that for every 3 guns the black community gets, 5 goes to the whites. It'll be called the 3/5ths compromise.

在目前的政治气候下，如果这种情况真的发生了，将会有一个行政命令，规定黑人社区每得到3支枪，白人就得到5支。 这就是所谓的三分之五妥协。

nomorerainpls
or “it’s Obama’s fault!”

或者“这是奥巴马的错! ”

jellyrollo
I have permanent lung and brain damage, so I'm on dialysis, and they had to amputate my leg, but I still got my freedoms!

我有永久性的肺部和脑部损伤，所以我需要透析，他们不得不截掉我的腿，但我仍然得到了我的自由！

Eptalin
The government shouldn't force people to stay home. They should just get rid of the virus! /s

政府不应该强迫人们呆在家里，他们应该直接消灭病毒

lulubalue
Not just the suburbs of Michigan. I live in northern Virginia and recently learned one of my coworkers—who has been out of work for WEEKS on reserve status—has been driving around the country to go participate in these protests.
Apparently she’s been posting herself at these protests on social media. Unclear if she will be fired for this, but I certainly don’t trust her judgment to do her job anymore. We have been ordered to stay within a certain distance from work when not working, and she’s technically a contractor who can be fired at will. We’ll see what happens when this is all over.
she has been getting full pay the entire time she has not been working. So she isn’t protesting for a paycheck or anything like that.

不仅仅是密歇根的郊区。 我住在弗吉尼亚州北部，最近得知我的一个同事，已经失业好几个星期了，一直开车在全国各地参加这些抗议活动。
很明显，她一直在社交媒体上发布自己的抗议信息。 我不知道她是否会因此被解雇，但是我肯定不再相信她的判断能够胜任她的工作。 我们被命令在不工作的时候呆在离工作地点一定距离的范围内，而且严格上来说，她是一个可以随意解雇的承包商。 等这一切都结束了，我们再看看会发生什么。
她一直都有全额的工资，但她没有工作。 所以她并不是为了薪水或者类似的东西而去抗议。

PakiAmWeab
You and a bunch of people should complain that you dont feel comfortable working with her due to her travel history. Maybe that'll be the kick in the pants needed.

你和一群人应该抱怨说，由于她的旅行经历，你觉得和她一起工作不舒服。 也许这正是我们需要的。

ohhbrutalmaster
While the person in this scenario is clearly responsible for a completely preventable death from his own indiscriminate actions, there are many factors preventing him from recognizing this.
Denial, blame-shifting, scapegoating, minimizing, and pretty much any other evasive tactic.
This would be roundly condemned in a society that championed education in civics and the sciences alike, and ensured communication of news through trusted channels.
Instead, we have this. We are a failed state, and the system will need to burn to the ground—before we can return to normalcy.

虽然这种情况下的人显然应该为自己不分青红皂白的行为，所造成的完全可以预防的死亡负责，但有许多因素使他无法认识到这一点。
否认，推卸责任，找替罪羊，淡化，以及几乎所有其他的规避策略。
在一个倡导公民教育和科学教育，并确保通过可信的渠道传播新闻的社会里，这种做法会受到严厉谴责。
而相反，我们有这些。我们是一个失败的国家，在我们能够恢复正常之前，这个体系需要被烧成灰烬。

RimmerworldClone
Even then many of these "die hard types", would likely blame something else like 5G or what-not.

即便如此，这些“顽固分子”中的许多人也可能会归咎于5G 之类的东西。

JadenWasp
"free Michigan"
As if the US know of oppression and true denial of rights.
You want to see real oppression go look at the third world.
You are just being locked down because it is necessary and because you are too childish to do the right thing yourselves.
All you have to do is sit on your arse for a few months. Fuck me your lives are hard

“解放密歇根”
好像美国知道什么是压迫，什么是真正的权利剥夺。
你想看到真正的压迫，就去看看第三世界。
你们被封锁起来只是因为这是必要的，也是因为你们幼稚了，不能自己做正确的事情。
你们所要做的就是用你们的屁股坐几个月。卧槽你们的生活太艰难了？

ChildofUngoliant
The saddest part is my Trump thumping family members think it’s okay to make fun of minorities but don’t EVER judge someone for being fat because “weight is a sensitive subject”.

最可悲的是，我的支持特朗普的家人认为取笑少数族裔是可以的，但不要因为“体重是个敏感话题”而批评某人胖。

mnorthwood13
I had to check that because "highest fatality rate" has a couple different ways to be measured. It's deaths per x cases not cases per population (though it's still like...sixth?)

我必须核实一下，因为“最高死亡率”有几种不同的计算方法。它是每X病例的死亡数，而不是每人口的死亡数(尽管它仍然是... 排第六?)

mrbill4242
1 out of every 2500 people in Michigan have already died from this, which is also 6th highest in the US.

在密歇根州，每2500人中就有1人已经死于这种疾病，这也是美国第六高的死亡率。

redsunglasses8
9% of confirmed cases have died.

9% 的确诊病例已经死亡。

JusticeWithCookies
Confirmed cases and case fatality rates are unreliable in general. Death rates are a much more accurate indicator. Based on antibody tests, the infected death rate of the virus is somewhere between 0.5% to 1.3% (given that hospitals don't overload); dividing the number of deaths by that ratio gives a much better approximation of infection rates (despite the uncertainty range) than any information confirmed cases can give you.
The reason the range is so large is because the virus disproportionately kills those who are obese, those over 70, etc, so demographics can have a big impact on death rate.

一般来说，确诊病例和病死率是不可靠的。 死亡率是一个更准确的指标。 根据抗体测试，病毒感染的死亡率介于0.5% 到1.3% 之间(假设医院不超负荷运转) ; 用这个比例除以死亡人数得出的感染率近似值(尽管存在不确定范围)比任何已确诊病例所能提供的信息要好得多。
范围之所以如此之大，是因为病毒不成比例地杀死了那些肥胖的人和超过70岁的人，所以人口结构可能对死亡率有很大的影响。

quarantined-2020
I don't understand Americans. They want to go back to work even if that means they could contract a virus that could end my life?
Even if it's the best job in the world you shouldn't risk your life for it!
If it's about money then mail your representatives saying you want your tax dollars to be your income during the lock down. Stop going out there and risking your lives.
I am an American immigrant and a citizen. I never feel like an American tho.

我不了解美国人。 他们想回去工作，即使这意味着他们可能感染一种病毒，从而结束我的生命？
即使这是世界上最好的工作，你也不应该为它冒生命危险！
如果是钱的问题，那就给你的代理人发邮件说，你希望你交的税款在封锁期间成为你的收入。 别再冒着生命危险出去了。
我是美国移民，也是美国公民，虽然我从来不觉得自己是美国人。

musicaldigger
i live in Oakland County MI. they don't want to go back to work. they want other people to go to work so they can get their haircuts and go out to restaurants and have fun because they've been bored at home for 6 weeks.

我住在密歇根州的奥克兰县。 他们不想回去工作。 而他们希望其他人去工作，这样他们就可以去理发，去餐馆吃饭，玩得尽兴，因为他们已经在家里无聊了六个星期。

duckduckpenguin92
Spot on!

完全正确！

kate3544
It makes me sad that you say you don’t feel like an American, but at the same time, sometimes I feel like I don’t even recognize America anymore.
The idea that people think it’s a fucking appropriate thing to do - bringing guns and ammo to a state Capitol to complain about shit - utterly angers/befuddles me. It’s unfathomable to me.
I think, unfortunately, people that think like me are seeing an America a lot of people have seen for a long time. The wool is off our eyes and the truth is coming out and that saddens and angers me.
I don’t recognize this America

你说你觉得自己不像个美国人，这让我很难过，但同时，有时候我也觉得自己都不认识美国了。
人们认为把枪支弹药带到州议会大厦去抱怨，是一件他妈合适的事情，这种想法让我感到愤怒和迷惑。 这对我来说完全不可理解。
我认为，不幸的是，像我这样认为的人正在看到一个很多人已经看过很长时间的美国。真相正在浮出水面，这让我感到悲伤和愤怒。
我不认识这个美国。

SilenceIsViolent_2
This is exactly how I feel. Growing up, I felt so happy and proud to be American. Now, I don’t understood how we have kept up such a grandiose facade across the world that we’re “the best of the best”. In all honesty, if things don’t change come November and over the next few years, I’m legitimately thinking about moving to a different country. For the sake of my morals and everything I believe in, I can’t stay here if this is the direction our country is going.

这就是我的感受。 成长过程中，我为自己是美国人而感到高兴和自豪。 现在，我不明白我们是如何在全世界保持这样一副伟大的外表，认为我们是“精英中的精英”。老实说，如果情况在11月份和接下来的几年里都没有改变，我要考虑搬到另一个国家了。为了我的道德和我所信仰的一切，如果这是我们国家的前进方向，我不能留在这里。

kate3544
Precisely my thoughts, too.

这也正是我的想法。

Randyh524
Same

一样

sktowns
Absolutely agree. I thought I could stay and try to help shape the direction of this country in some small way, but it's just heartbreaking and stressful and emotionally exhausting living here. For my own mental health, I think I'll be leaving within a few years.

完全同意。 我本以为我可以留下来，尝试用一些小的方式帮助塑造这个国家的发展方向，但是住在这里让人心碎、压力重重、心情疲惫。为了我自己的心理健康，我想我会在几年内离开美国。

captainax
I’m an American and I don’t understand us either...

我是美国人，我也不了解我们自己..

deedeew0917
To be honest I don’t think it’s really only about protesting to go back to work. There’s something about American “freedom” that whenever you say “you cannot do X”, Americans will do whatever it takes to do X because they believe it’s their fundamental right to fight for this so called freedom.. it doesn’t occur to these people that the freedom to do something does not equate to freedom from consequences. It’s like telling a 5 year old you can’t have something, their natural instinct is to want the thing you told them they cannot have. And it’s very unfortunate because a lot of people are going to die as a result of this childish buffoonery

老实说，我不认为这真的只是抗议回去工作。 关于美国的“自由” ，每当你说“你不能做某事” ，美国人就会不惜一切代价去做某事，因为他们相信为所谓的自由而战，是他们的基本权利... 这些人不会想到，有做某事的自由，并不等同于有免于后果的自由。 这就像告诉一个5岁的孩子你不能得到某些东西，这些人的本能是想要你告诉他们，他们不能得到的东西。这是非常不幸的，因为许多人将会因为这种幼稚的滑稽行为而死去。

found_the_remote
Problem is a lot of people can't even get unemployment, so I bet some are getting desperate for money.

问题是很多人甚至不能失业，所以我打赌有些人急需钱。

trashymcgeee
The protesters don’t care because most of the deaths are concentrated in cities and counties with larger black populations like Detroit, flint, Grand Rapids and Benton harbor, Oakland county etc.
And frankly Michigan is so segregated I’m kinda starting to wonder what would happen if they closed off the urban centers and let the rest of the state open up to varying degrees.
As you can see...not too many black people in the protest pictures.

抗议者并不在乎，因为大多数死亡病例都集中在黑人人口较多的城市和县，如底特律、弗林特、大急流城、本顿港和奥克兰等。
坦率地说，密歇根非常的种族隔离，我开始有点想知道，如果他们封锁城市中心，并让该州的其他地方不同程度地开放，会发生什么。
正如你所看到的... 在抗议的照片中没有太多的黑人在其中。

queefunder
That's because the protests are basically like Trump rallies.

这是因为抗议活动基本上就像特朗普的集会。

SequinBarkley
That's what happens when you don't read newspapers and get your information from cable conspiracy theory tv shows.

这就是你不看报纸，不从有线电视阴谋论节目中获取信息的结果。

DaGoz
And Facebook. Don't forget Facebook.

还有脸书，别忘了脸书。

xveganrox
What do you expect? Trump is tweeting “LIBERATE MICHIGAN” and shit

你还指望什么？ 特朗普在推特上发布了“解放密歇根州”之类的东西

raistlin65
That has apparently been discussed by the governor. Dividing the state into different regions, and then applying social distancing measures based upon the infection rate in the region.

州长显然已经讨论过这个问题。 将国家划分为不同的地区，然后根据该地区的感染率采取社交距离措施。

HereUThrowThisAway
They're just rising because they tripled the testing capacity in Kent and Kalamazoo county. We've been locked down and staying a t home so it has not been spreading as rapidly.

他们的数字之所以上升，是因为他们在肯特和卡拉马祖县的测试能力提高了三倍。我们被锁在家里，所以疫情没有传播得那么快。

drink-water-often
Where I live in Michigan, only see older white men (a handful of younger ones) without masks.

在我居住的密歇根州，只看到年长的白人(少数年轻人)没有戴口罩。

ukfan758
Why is Michigan (Detroit in particular) getting hit so hard compared to other states regarding deaths? Ohio has more people yet only a quarter of the deaths. Tennessee has just 210 deaths and they’re only 3 million less than Michigan.

为什么密歇根州(特别是底特律)与其他州相比，有更高的死亡率？俄亥俄州有更多的人口，但只有密歇根州死亡人数的四分之一。 田纳西州只有210人死亡，而他们的人口只比密歇根州少300万。

GreyCrowDownTheLane
Detroit's a hub. If you're going to New York, you might be stopping in Detroit first to change planes.
And then there's population DENSITY. It's not just about the number of people, but how tightly they're packed together in a city. Detroit's big, but there are huge portions of it that are essentially abandoned, while others are densely-packed.

底特律是一个枢纽。如果你要去纽约，你可能要先在底特律转机。
还有人口密度。 这不仅仅是关于人口数量，而是他们在一个城市里挤在一起的密度。底特律是个大城市，但其中有很大一部分基本上是废弃的，而其他城市则人口密集。

code_archeologist
Is it just me, or do these protests seem like an overly complicated way for these idiots to commit suicide.

是只有我这么觉得吗，还是这些抗议活动似乎是这些白痴一种过于复杂的自杀方式。

TimmyTesticles
It looks like suicide but they'll actually be spreading the virus to many loved ones and strangers as well.

这看起来像是自杀，但实际上他们将把病毒传播给许多亲人和陌生人。

miguk
Technically, it's murder/suicide, with a hint of lynching.

严格来说，这是谋杀/自杀，还有一点私刑的味道。

Randyh524
My grandma just passed from covid in MI. Fuck these people.

我在密歇根州的奶奶刚得新冠肺炎过世，去他妈的这些人。

TriflingHotDogVendor
RIP to your grams.

愿你的奶奶安息。

ReverendDizzle
The currently high fatality rate sure looks a whole lot like people ignored the social distancing rules at Easter.

目前的高致死率看起来就像是人们忽视了复活节的社交距离规则。

Sparcrypt
Where I live they were all over the news and such saying "DO NOT GO ON AN EASTER HOLIDAY, STAY HOME". Then they set up road blocks out of the main area and pulled over dozens of people towing caravans, heading out for an easter holiday.
Everybody for some reason thinks the rules just don't apply to them, as if they're so special. My favourites are the "why is it a problem, there's nobody around!". As though that's how quarantine works.. everybody else stays home so they can go out and enjoy themselves.

在我住的地方，新闻里到处都是这样的话: “不要去过复活节假期，待在家里”。 然后他们在主要区域设置路障，拦下几十个拖着大篷车的人，准备去过复活节假期。
出于某种原因，每个人都认为这些规则不适用于他们，好像他们很特别似的。 我最喜欢的说法是“为什么会有问题，周围一个人都没有！”好像隔离就是这么回事似的... 其他人都待在家里，这样他们就能出去玩了。

4blockhead
I was surprised that the mortality rate varies so much among different states.

我很惊讶，不同州的死亡率差异如此之大。

artofassociation
Isn't death rate just a measure of how healthy the population is? Infection rate would be more appropriate in measuring affects of protests. Even then, it's difficult to specifically say what impact the protests are having.

难道死亡率不正是衡量人口健康程度的标准吗？ 感染率更适合用来衡量抗议活动的影响。 即便如此，也很难具体说明抗议活动产生了什么影响。

Conker1985
Keep it up and they just might free themselves from living.

坚持下去，他们也许就能从生活中解脱出来。

0atILsn6url4BIh
I live in Metro Detroit and I went on a bike ride today for the first time this year. I went back and forth about wearing a mask because I wasn't sure if it would be necessary and I thought it'd make it hard to breathe. I'm so glad I ended up wearing my mask because I rode through a park at one point and the park was fully packed. I must have seen over a hundred people walking around, picnicking, and riding bikes, included large groups of people. Not a single mask among them. I couldn't believe my eyes. I was honestly ashamed of my state.

我住在底特律，今天是我今年第一次骑自行车。 我反复思考戴口罩的问题，因为我不确定是否有必要，而且我觉得戴口罩会让人呼吸困难。我很高兴我最后戴上了口罩，因为我骑着自行车穿过一个公园，公园里人满为患。 我至少看到过一百多人走来走去，野餐，骑自行车，其中包括一大群人。 没有一个人戴着口罩。 我简直不敢相信我的眼睛。 老实说，我真的为自己的国家感到羞耻。

GrugCrood
The very people who rant most about their rights right now, historically, are the same type who did everything in their power stop minorities and women from having equal rights.

从历史上看，那些现在大声疾呼自己权利的人，正是当时那些竭尽全力阻止少数群体和妇女享有平等权利的人。