[2025-09-04]Quora问答：谁了解世界历史？为什么越南从未像中国的汉朝、唐朝和明朝那样，产生过世界级的王朝或帝国？

Q-X Sun Chinese, Data Engineer
Although humans are social animals, most are unwilling to give up their rights to form a strong social organization unless faced with significant environmental pressure.
China's recorded history (not entirely mythical, although it does have some mythical elements) begins with Dayu's flood control. The land along the Yellow River was extremely fertile, but devastating floods occurred periodically. This forced the people to unite and build large-scale water conservancy projects. However, these projects required annual maintenance to prevent the Yellow River floods from returning. Therefore, after becoming a tribal leader, Dayu regularly organized people to repair the water conservancy projects. This also led to the birth of the earliest Chinese state (the legendary Xia Dynasty). Architects and hydraulic engineers (rather than warriors in most civilizations) protected the people and thus became the earliest aristocracy. This also established China's technocratic tradition, where officials were scholars and engineers who helped the majority of the people solve problems. (The exception was the Mongol Yuan Dynasty, which fell due to its ineffective control of the Yellow River.) In the Ming Dynasty, the highest official (the prime minister) was titled "Grand Secretary Scholar of the Cabinet."

【回答】中国人，数据工程师
虽然人类是社会性动物，但大多数人并不愿意放弃自身的权利去组建强大的社会组织，除非面临重大的环境压力。
中国有记载的历史（并非完全神话，尽管也有一些神话成分）始于大禹治水。黄河流域的土地极为肥沃，但周期性地发生毁灭性的洪水。这迫使人们团结起来，兴建大规模的水利工程。然而，这些工程需要每年维护，以防止黄河洪水再次爆发。因此，大禹成为部落首领后，定期组织人们修缮水利工程。这也促成了中国最早的国家（传说中的夏朝）的诞生。建筑师与水利工程师（而非其他文明中的战士）保护了民众，成为最早的贵族阶层。正因如此，中国确立了“技术官僚”传统，官员多为学者和工程师，致力于帮助大多数人解决实际问题。（唯一的例外是蒙古的元朝，由于对黄河治理不力而迅速灭亡）在明朝，最高级别的官员（宰相）被称为“内阁大学士”。

Of course, China today still values technocrats and scholar-bureaucrats, such as Jiang Zemin (an electrical engineer) and Hu Jintao (a water conservancy engineer). As a young man, Xi Jinping built biogas digesters in villages to provide villagers with clean and cheap fuel. Later, he studied chemical engineering at Tsinghua University, which launched his political career.
The same was true in Rome. Rome was originally a small city-state, but wars with Latin city-states and Carthage led Roman citizens to unite and establish an empire. Citizens of an empire lack the freedom of individual tribesmen; they surrender these freedoms to the government, forming a strong organization capable of resisting external threats (whether natural disasters or powerful enemies). Empires often emerge under immense environmental pressure.

当然，如今的中国依然重视技术官僚和学者型官员，如江泽民（电气工程师）、胡锦涛（水利工程师）。年轻时，习近平曾在农村建沼气池，为村民提供清洁廉价的燃料。后来，他在清华大学学习化学工程，这也开启了他的政治生涯。
罗马的情况也类似。罗马最初只是一个小城邦，但与拉丁城邦和迦太基的战争促使罗马公民团结起来，建立了帝国。帝国的公民不像部落成员那样自由，他们将个人的某些自由让渡给政府，从而组建起能够抵御外部威胁（无论是自然灾害还是强大敌人）的强大组织。帝国往往是在巨大的环境压力下诞生的。

Southeast Asia, however, is a land of abundant resources. Although Southeast Asia has now entered (or is semi-modernized), we can still see a microcosm of the local Southeast Asian peoples at the same latitude in Africa. Most tribesmen do not need to work daily, relying solely on tree fruits (or starchy fruits like breadfruit) to satisfy their hunger. The African grasslands are also rich in prey, satisfying their meat needs. Occasionally, wars broke out between tribes, but these were relatively small-scale. Because people could easily survive and had no need to fight to the death, they were less willing to cede power and form a government.
With the exception of Vietnam, most Southeast Asian populations were similar. They formed a "mandala system," a loose political organization similar to a city-state alliance. Because the Chinese army could only reach northern Vietnam and was unwilling to enter the dense jungle, they did not need to establish a central government like Vietnam to resist the strong military pressure from the outside world, and could only rely on the abundant resources to survive. This is why Southeast Asia did not establish a powerful empire before the arrival of the colonists.

然而，东南亚是一个资源极为丰富的地区。尽管东南亚如今已步入（或半步入）现代化，我们仍然能在同纬度的非洲看到东南亚原住民的缩影。大多数部落成员无需每日辛苦劳作，仅靠树上的果实（或如面包果这样的淀粉类果实）就能果腹。非洲草原上也有丰富的猎物，能满足人们的肉食需求。部落之间偶有战争，但规模都相对较小。因为人们容易生存下来，也没有必需为生存而拼死搏斗，他们也就不太愿意让渡权力、组建强有力的政府。
除了越南外，大多数东南亚人口都类似。他们形成了“曼荼罗体系”，即一种松散的政治组织，类似于城邦联盟。由于中国军队只能抵达越南北部，不愿深入茂密的丛林，东南亚其他地区无需像越南那样建立中央集权政府来抵御外部强大军事压力，而只需依赖丰富的资源就能生存。这也是为什么东南亚在殖民者到来之前，没有建立起强大的帝国。

Jason.kete undergraduate course in LCAO Theory, University of Paris (Graduated 2012)
Vietnam has long been ruled by China. How did it establish a so-called world-class dynasty?……….
This is an interesting question. First, when did the Vietnamese develop their own national identity? In fact, the Vietnamese have long been Chinese throughout history. They were conquered by the Chinese during the Han Dynasty 2,000 years ago, and then the Chinese began a millennium of rule over Vietnam. Therefore, you'll find that current Vietnamese history textbooks are almost always about resisting the rule of the so-called Chinese conquerors.
Vietnam's ancient culture also mainly comes from China. It belongs to the Chinese cultural circle like Korea and Japan.
Even in ancient Vietnamese texts, you'll find that Vietnamese people often call themselves Chinese or Han Chinese.
In fact, the Kinh people of Vietnam are a branch of the Han Chinese ethnic group. They are descendants of Han Chinese who colonized the region and interbred with the indigenous people. This has also been confirmed by genetic testing.

【回答】巴黎大学原子轨道线性组合理论本科课程（2012年毕业）
越南长期以来一直被中国统治。那么它要如何建立起所谓的世界级王朝的呢？……
这是一个有趣的问题。首先，越南人是什么时候发展出自己的民族认同的？其实在历史上，越南人长期以来一直是中国人。两千年前，越南在汉朝时期被中国征服，之后中国对越南进行了长达一千年的统治。因此，你会发现，现今越南的历史教材几乎都在讲述抵抗所谓中国征服者统治的内容。
越南的古代文化也主要源自中国，和韩国、日本一样，属于中华文化圈。
甚至在古代越南的文献中，你会发现越南人经常自称为中国人或汉人。
实际上，越南的京族是汉族的一个分支。他们是汉人殖民该地区并与当地土著通婚的后代。这一点也已经通过基因检测得到了证实。
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Roy
I've already preemptively crafted a rebuttal for Vietnam's cyber warriors: The human genome is 98% identical to that of pigs. Does that suddenly make humans swine?

【回复】我已经提前为越南的键盘战士准备好了反驳：人类的基因组有98%和猪是相同的，这难道就突然让人类变成了猪吗？

Acong Sepele
It's their nation mythmaking, they even consider Zhao Tuo as their founding ancestor, an imperial Qin general that is a bonafide confucian elite that go there to sinicized. Their ruler ancestry is historically Chinese. It's an identity schizophrenia. Their defiance towards their Chinese legacy is to preserved their identity as Vietnamese

【回复】这是他们的民族神话构建，他们甚至把赵佗当作开国祖先——一个正统的秦朝将军，是地道的儒家精英，奉命南下推行汉化。他们的统治者祖先在历史上就是中国人。这是一种身份认同的精神分裂。他们抗拒自身的中国渊源，是为了维护他们作为越南人的身份认同。

Schtickyrice
Zhao Tuo was a northern Chinese gone south.
He renounced his links to Hebei and set down roots in Nanyue, in modern day Guangzhou.

【回复】赵佗是一个从北方南下的中国人。他断绝了与河北的联系，在南越（今广州）扎下了根。

Schtickyrice
Culturally yes. Genetically, not so much. Whole genome sequencing gives a holistic picture compared to a single haplotype.

【回复】文化上是的，基因上则不太一样。全基因组测序相比单一单倍型能提供更全面的图景。

Dan.Peter
East Asian tradition values paternal lineage, and maternal lineage is not important

【回复】东亚传统重视父系血统，母系血统并不重要。

凛冬将至
You are right, in East Asia and central and northern Vietnam, cultural identity is prioritized, followed by paternal lineage...

【回复】你说得对，在东亚以及越南中部和北部，文化认同被放在首位，其次才是父系血统……

Schtickyrice
Exactly. Culturally yes, genetically not so much

【回复】没错，文化上是这样，基因上倒不太是。

Schtickyrice
OK, but even your haplotype diagram does not support your position. Southern Han are overwhelmingly O3, while Vietnamese have more O2a and O2b.

【回复】好的，但即使是你的单倍型图表也不支持你的观点。南方汉族主要是O3，而越南人则更多是O2a和O2b。

K
Vietnamese is nationality, not ethnicity. The genetic of the original Kinh Viet ethnic is closest to that of the Southern Han Chinese.

【回复】越南人是国籍概念，而非民族概念。原始京族的基因与中国南方汉族的基因最为接近。

Schtickyrice
No, genetically Vietnamese are intermediate between Southern Han and Dai Xishuangbanna (CDX) and other Kra-Dai speaking populations.

【回复】不，越南人在基因上介于南方汉族和西双版纳傣族（CDX）以及其他壮侗语族群体之间。

K
No need to debate. I’m referring to original Kinh ethnic. There’s no such thing as a Vietnamese ethnicity, just as there’s no American ethnicity.

【回复】没必要争论。我指的是原始的京族。并不存在所谓的“越南族”，就像不存在“美国族”一样。
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Weychin Chua Technical Advisor for Hair Products Distributor
There's a chinese saying:-
“ Tian Shi Di Li Ren He. Translated as, the Right Time, the Right Place & the Right People doing the Right Things.”
Other additional considerations:- Population size Resource Technology Economy Military Power
And whether its economy and military is based on:- Land power Maritime Power And Human Drive
What makes a nation strive outwards, eg. Land with abundance resources tend to be more placid and sedentary.
Seafaring nations thrive on maritime trade, and behind it naval might to assert itself.
While nomadic tribes, whenever the situation allows, will tend to raid, rape and pillage other neighboring areas or country, due to lack of chinese resources.
The Xiongnus, Khitans, Jurchens, Mongolian, Huns ,Scythian, Parthian etc. are horse mounted tribes that raided bordering countries.
However, it is only possible with the right technology, mobility eg. cavalry, or the Viking, light portable raiding ships.
Great land powers are China and Indian, Persian, Macedonian, Mongolian, Timurid , Turkish dynastic empires.
Naval powers, mainly economic, like the Phoenicians, Arabian, Sri Vijayan, Majapahit and in the West, the Portugeuse,Spanish, Dutch and British in succession.
Western colonial powers rely on their technological advantage to exploit resources from their colony, enough to support their nations for generations.
In Africa, there is the Mali Empire, renowned for its gold. Due to the way the maps were drawn, most people did not realize how big Africa is, although it is the second largest continent in the world.
The Europeans refer it as the Dark Continent.
While in the America's, you have better known Aztec and Inca Empires along with various civilizations, all without the invention of the wheels.
Tian Shi mean Right Time, which meaning a vacuum, or a moment devoid of competition, allowing a country to develop into an empire. Vietnam is able to conquer Champa, due to its internal troubles.
Di Li Right Place, means one geographical location, landmass, climate, the ability to support a large population, economy and military might.
Ren He, Right People doing the Right Things at the right time, right place, right moment at the right climate.
It is a synergy of everything put in place.
Vietnam is in wrong neighborhood, IndoChina, without the necessary landmass ,sandwiched between the Chinese in the North, the sea in the East, and Siamese, and India in the west.
Laos and Khmer kingdom served as buffer states as they declined.
If fact, if it were not for Western colonial powers, the Siamese would have a larger landmass, which were ceded to the British and the French.
Vietnam became part of the French Indochina. In fact, it is the French that help spread the use of quoc ngu.

【回答】护发产品经销商技术顾问
有一句中国谚语：
“天时、地利、人和” ，翻译过来就是，合适的时机，合适的地点，以及合适的人在做合适的事情。
其他需要考虑的因素还有：人口规模 资源 科技 经济 军事力量。
以及其经济和军事基础是依托于：陆权 海权 还有人的驱动力。
是什么让一个国家向外扩张？比如，资源丰富的土地往往比较安逸、定居。
以航海为主的国家依赖海上贸易发展，并靠海军力量来维护自身地位。
而游牧部落，只要条件允许，往往会因为缺乏自身资源而去侵袭、掠夺、劫掠邻近地区或国家。
匈奴、契丹、女真、蒙古、匈人、斯基泰人、帕提亚人等，都是以骑马为主的部族，曾经侵扰周边国家。
不过，这一切只有在拥有合适的技术和机动能力时才可能实现，比如骑兵，或者像维京人那样，拥有轻便的可携带突袭船只。
伟大的陆权强国有中国、印度、波斯、马其顿、蒙古、帖木儿、土耳其等王朝帝国。
海权强国则主要依靠经济，比如腓尼基人、阿拉伯人、室利佛逝、满者伯夷，以及西方的葡萄牙、西班牙、荷兰和英国等相继崛起。
西方殖民列强依靠自身的技术优势，从殖民地掠夺资源，足以支撑本国几代人的繁荣。
在非洲，有以黄金闻名的马里帝国。由于地图绘制方式的原因，大多数人并未意识到非洲有多大，尽管它是世界第二大洲。
欧洲人称之为“黑暗大陆”。
而在美洲，则有更为人熟知的阿兹特克和印加帝国，以及各种文明，所有这些都没有发明轮子。
天时，指的是“合适的时机”，也就是一个真空期，或者说没有竞争的时刻，让一个国家有机会发展成为帝国。比如，越南能够征服占婆，就是因为占婆内部出现了问题。
地利，指的是“合适的地点”，包括地理位置、陆地面积、气候、支撑大量人口的能力、经济和军事力量等。
人和，指的是“合适的人在合适的时机、合适的地点、合适的气候下做合适的事 ”。
这是方方面面的协同作用。
越南处于一个不利的地理环境，中南半岛，缺乏足够的土地面积，被北方的中国、东边的海洋、西边的暹罗和印度夹在中间。
老挝和高棉王国作为缓冲国逐渐衰落。
事实上，如果不是因为西方殖民列强的介入，暹罗的领土会更大，这些土地后来被割让给了英国和法国。
越南则成为了法属印度支那的一部分。实际上，正是法国人帮助普及了国语字（越南字）。
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Dayienoelle Hanauer
Never thought of it, like that before.

【回复】我以前从来没这样想过。

Weychin Chua
This simply a condensation of factors, much like the i ching, which is eight hexagrams, expanded into the 64 hexagrams and if necessary into 4096 combinations.

【答主回复】这其实是各种因素的浓缩，很像易经，易经是由八个卦扩展成六十四卦，如果需要的话，还可以扩展成4096种组合。
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Flyhi Gao Lives in Fujian, China 1977–present
If the empire you're referring to is something like the Roman Empire, the Chinese Han Dynasty, or the Mongol Empire, then such super-empires would not emerge in tropical regions. However, if you're referring to smaller empires in general, the Khmer Empire is a good example, and Vietnam was once part of this empire.

【回答】居住在中国福建（1977年 - 至今）
如果你说的帝国是像罗马帝国、汉朝或者蒙古帝国那样的超级帝国，那么这种超级帝国不会出现在热带地区。不过，如果你指的是一般规模较小的帝国，高棉帝国就是一个很好的例子，越南曾经也是这个帝国的一部分。

Dsy1972
The country is too small and has been ruled by China for a long time. The geographical location and climate conditions are bad, and Southeast Asia is very hot. For all these reasons, it is difficult to establish a so-called world-class dynasty.

【回答】
这个国家太小，而且长期被中国统治。地理位置和气候条件都不好，东南亚非常炎热。由于这些原因，很难建立所谓的世界级王朝。

Dominic Roy Accampo Life Long Bible & History Student who also observes mankind
Even after Vietnam gained independence from China the country was only a small fraction of the size of China, which dominated all of East Asia for most of human history, after that is, China was united.
While China’s desire to incorporate all former territories is now a threat to the independence of all of South East Asia.

【回答】终身学习圣经和历史，同时观察人类
即使在越南摆脱中国统治获得独立之后，这个国家的面积也只是中国的一小部分。在人类历史的大部分时间里，中国统一后便长期主导着整个东亚地区。如今，中国想要收回所有曾经的领土，这对整个东南亚的独立构成了威胁。

Feng Lu Lives in China (1970–present)
Simply put:
Because it was a neighboring country of the Han and Tang dynasties.
A superpower cannot exist next to another superpower.

【回答】居住在中国（1970年 - 至今）
简单来说：
因为它是汉朝和唐朝的邻国。
超级大国旁边不可能再有另一个超级大国。

Alan Dawson Former Life-long Newsman, Reporter and Editor.
Vietnam certainly has had dynasties. I think the last one was the Nguyen dynasty, but in any case there have been quite a few.

【回答】前资深新闻工作者、记者和编辑。
越南当然有过王朝。我认为最后一个是阮朝，不过无论如何，曾经有过好几个王朝。
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Dan.Peter
None of them can be compared with the Chinese dynasty. But it is really unfair. Before the Industrial Revolution, China was one of the most powerful empires in the world for a long time.

【回复】它们都无法与中国的王朝相提并论。但这其实很不公平。在工业革命之前，中国长期都是世界上最强大的帝国之一。

Jason.kete
Almost. Even the relatively weak Song Dynasty was able to resist the invasion of the Mongols for 50 years. Don't forget that the Mongols were right next to China. It would be unimaginable for other countries at that time. And this rule was not long. After that, the Ming Dynasty captured the capital of the Mongol Empire twice.

【回复】差不多。即便是相对较弱的宋朝，也能够抵抗蒙古人的入侵达50年之久。别忘了，蒙古人当时就在中国的旁边。对于当时的其他国家来说，这是难以想象的。而且这种统治并没有持续很久。之后，明朝还两次攻占了蒙古帝国的首都。

Dan.Peter
That's why I say that Europe before the Industrial Revolution was weak compared to China. The Hun and Turkic peoples, massacred by the Han and Tang dynasties, fled to Europe and became the scourge of God, even conquering the last days of the Roman Empire. And now, China has regained the status it once held: a superpower.

【回复】这就是为什么我说工业革命前的欧洲相比中国是弱小的。那些被汉朝和唐朝屠戮的匈奴人和突厥人，逃到了欧洲，成了上帝之鞭，甚至征服了罗马帝国的末期。而现在，中国重新获得了它曾经拥有的地位：超级大国。

Dan.Peter
The Song Dynasty was mediocre compared to the Han, Tang, and even Ming dynasties. But it was certainly more powerful than European countries of the same period. The Mongols themselves recalled that the most difficult region to conquer was China.

【回复】宋朝相比汉唐，甚至明朝都算不上出色。但它无疑比同时期的欧洲国家更为强大。蒙古人自己也曾回忆说，中国是他们最难征服的地区。

Jason.kete
There is no comparison. Vietnam has been ruled by China since the Qin and Han dynasties, and until the Ming Dynasty, it was under the rule of the Chinese dynasty for almost 1,000 years. In some periods, it was a vassal state of the Chinese dynasty. Although it was not directly ruled, it was not much different from Korea.

【回复】没有可比性。越南自秦汉以来一直被中国统治，直到明朝，几乎有一千年都处于中国王朝的统治之下。在某些时期，它还是中国王朝的附属国。虽然不是直接统治，但和朝鲜也没什么太大区别。
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Bang Na Knows Chinese
From my point of view, I think that the creation of world-class dynasties in ancient times such as Han, Tang, and Ming must depend a lot on the strength of empires. Those caste dynasties must be based on invasion and conquest.
However, the development of a powerful empire depends heavily on policy-making rulers. In the history of Vietnam, most rulers loved peace and did not have a policy of aggression to expand their territory. There will be conflicting opinions that Vietnam also has the mindset of invading other countries, but it only happens when other countries threaten Vietnam's existence. Vietnam was not a powerful empire in ancient times based on conquest. But they have been very successful in defending their country based on defensive and diplomatic doctrines. Empires that rose and then declined such as: Han, Tang, Song, Ming, Mongolia... Most of the ancient nations would disappear after the conquests of empires. But Vietnam is still there, it is still a country for Vietnamese people to live in. While the other empires are gone. There is an interesting history that, when the feudal dynasties in China were invaded and collapsed. They often fled to Vietnam to submit to the Vietnamese rulers. But when Vietnamese dynasties were invaded or collapsed, they never fled to China.

【回答】懂中文
在我看来，像汉、唐、明这样的世界级王朝的建立，在很大程度上必须依赖帝国的实力。这些等级分明的王朝必须以侵略和征服为基础。
然而，一个强大帝国的发展在很大程度上取决于制定政策的统治者。在越南历史上，大多数统治者都热爱和平，没有通过侵略扩张领土的政策。有人可能会认为越南也有侵略其他国家的想法，但那只发生在其他国家威胁到越南生存的时候。
古代越南并不是一个以征服为基础的强大帝国，但他们在捍卫国家方面非常成功，依靠的是防御和外交政策。像汉、唐、宋、明、蒙古等这些曾经崛起又衰落的帝国一样，大多数古代国家在帝国的征服下最终都消失了。但越南依然存在，依然是越南人民生活的国家，而其他那些帝国早已不复存在。
有一个有趣的历史现象是，当中国的封建王朝被侵略和灭亡时，他们常常逃到越南，并向越南的统治者投降。但当越南的王朝被侵略或灭亡时，他们从未逃到中国。
---------------------------

Jason.kete
Successfully defended the country? From the Han Dynasty to the Ming Dynasty, it was ruled by China for 1,000 years, and then it was a French colony?

【回复】成功保卫了国家？从汉朝到明朝，这里被中国统治了一千年，后来又成了法国的殖民地？

Bang Na
Yes. I agree that Vietnam was ruled and invaded by the Han dynasty for 1000 years and the Ming dynasty for 20 years but they successfully drove out the Chinese. That is why they did not become Chinese like the countries that once existed in China. The descendants of the Ming Dynasty finally had to flee to Vietnam and become the people of the Nguyen lords like me, I have to be grateful to Vietnam. There is an issue to clarify in your comment: Do you think Han or Ming is China today?

【答主回复】是的。我同意越南曾被汉朝统治和侵略了一千年，被明朝统治了二十年，但他们成功地把中国人赶走了。这也是为什么他们没有像曾经存在于中国的那些国家一样变成中国人。明朝的后裔最终不得不逃到越南，成为像我一样的阮主的子民，我必须对越南心存感激。你的评论里有一个问题需要澄清：你认为汉朝或明朝就是今天的中国吗？

Jason.kete
Are the Nguyen Dynasty and the Tran Dynasty exactly the same as the present Vietnam? LOL

【回复】阮朝和陈朝跟现在的越南是一样的吗？笑死了

Bang Na
Yes. Of course, it's the same. The Nguyen Dynasty was founded by a Vietnamese, it began when Nguyen Anh defeated Emperor Quang Trung to ascend the throne. Or the Tran dynasty is a Vietnamese starting from the time Tran Thu Do abolished the Ly dynasty. Overall, they were all civil wars to compete for power to rule Dai Viet. It is different from the Manchus and Mongols who invaded China and created their own states, the Yuan and Qing empires.

【答主回复】是的，当然是一样的。阮朝是由越南人建立的，始于阮福映击败光中皇帝登基称帝。或者说，陈朝也是越南人建立的，从陈守度废除李朝开始。总体来说，这些都是为了争夺统治大越的权力而发生的内战。这与满洲人和蒙古人入侵中国，建立自己的政权元朝和清朝是不同的。

Jason.kete
LOL, the Yuan Dynasty was destroyed by the Ming Dynasty, and the Qing Dynasty was destroyed by the Republic of China. The slogan of the Ming Dynasty emperor and the president of the Republic of China was to drive out the barbarians and restore China. All the presidents of the People's Republic of China and the Republic of China are Han Chinese, and over 95% of the Standing Committee of the Political Bureau of the Communist Party of China are also Han Chinese.

【回复】哈哈，元朝是被明朝灭的，清朝是被中华民国灭的。明朝皇帝和中华民国总统的口号都是驱逐鞑虏，恢复中华。中华人民共和国和中华民国的所有总统都是汉族人，中共中央政治局常委中，超过95%也是汉族人。

Jason.kete
The Yuan and Qing dynasties are long gone. The Mongols and Manchus suffered large-scale retaliation by the Chinese at the end of their rule. This is clearly recorded. Are you living in the 14th or 19th century? LOL

【回复】元朝和清朝早就不存在了。蒙古人和满族人在他们统治末期遭到了中国人大规模的报复，这都有明确记载。你还活在14世纪或19世纪吗？笑了

Bang Na
It's ridiculous. You are Manchurian and Mongolian. It's in your blood. Your culture is Manchuria, Mongolia. The traditional costumes you wear are also from Manchuria and Mongolia and you are building tombs and making movies praising the feats of the Manchurian and Mongolian emperors. You're just deliberately claiming what belonged to the Han civilization that died thousands of years ago in a ridiculous way. Do you think Americans are Native Americans now?

【答主回复】太荒谬了。你们是满洲人和蒙古人，这已经刻在你们的血液里。你们的文化属于满洲和蒙古，你们穿的传统服饰也是满洲和蒙古的，你们还在修建陵墓、拍电影歌颂满洲和蒙古皇帝的功绩。你们只是在以一种荒谬的方式刻意宣称早已消亡几千年的汉族文明属于你们。你觉得美国人现在就是美洲原住民吗？

Jason.kete
No, I'm not Chinese. I'm just a Frenchman with a particular interest in East Asian history, and of course, Chinese dynasties. Secondly, your claim about Mongol and Manchu genes is not true. Most Chinese people are essentially no different from Neolithic people, as is evident in genetic testing. Conversely, many Vietnamese are indeed of Han Chinese descent, as genetic testing doesn't lie.

【回复】不，我不是中国人。我只是一个对东亚历史，尤其是中国朝代特别感兴趣的法国人。其次，你关于蒙古和满洲基因的说法并不正确。大多数中国人与新石器时代的人实际上并没有什么区别，这在基因检测中很明显。相反，很多越南人确实有汉族血统，因为基因检测不会说谎。

Lanboall
It seems that at least 37% of Vietnamese men are of Chinese descent...

【回复】看起来至少有37%的越南男性有中国血统…

Jason.kete
Yes, genetic testing never lies. This Vietnamese nationalist can't change that fact.

【回复】是的，基因检测从不会说谎。这个越南民族主义者无法改变这个事实。

Bang Na
Where do you get that test from? Is it from China? How can you get the genetic genes of the ancient Han people in the 220s?

【答主回复】你在哪里得到那个测试的？来自中国吗？你怎么能得到公元220年代古代汉族人的基因信息？

Bang Na
It is not possible to use DNA to talk about the origins of a multi-ethnic country. Especially the countries that were ruled by the Manchus and Mongols. Where does your research come from? Is it from China? For more than 3 centuries the Chinese identified themselves as Qingren, not Han. They practice according to Manchu culture. Without the Han people, Han was just a hotpot of all the peoples who invaded and ruled Zhongyuan.

【答主回复】用DNA来讨论多民族国家的起源是行不通的，尤其是那些曾被满蒙统治的国家。你的研究资料来源是哪？是来自中国吗？三百多年来，中国人自称清人，不是汉人。他们遵循的是满清文化。没有汉族人，“汉”只不过是所有入侵并统治中原的民族的大杂烩。

Jason.kete
The Mongols and Manchus ruled China for only 350 years, while you were ruled by the Chinese for 1,000 years. I'm curious about how your logic came to be. Secondly, the Chinese do not worship the Manchus and Mongols. The large-scale retaliatory massacres that occurred during the Yuan and Qing dynasties speak for themselves. I've studied Chinese for six years and have been to China four times. What I've seen is that most Chinese still hate the Yuan and Qing dynasties.

【回复】蒙古人和满洲人统治中国只有350年，而你们被中国人统治了1000年。我很好奇你的逻辑是怎么得出的。其次，中国人并不崇拜满洲人和蒙古人。元朝和清朝期间发生的大规模报复性屠杀已经说明了一切。我学了六年中文，去过中国四次。根据我的观察，大多数中国人至今仍然讨厌元朝和清朝。

Bang Na
The Mongols and Manchus ruled China for only 350 years, while you were ruled by the Chinese for 1,000 years
My logic is incredibly simple. China did not exist in history. The Han that China claims today is different from the Han people of the 220s BC. How do you explain the tombs and the films about the feats of the Manchu and Mongolian emperors? You are French, you will not be able to understand Chinese history as well as I do.

【答主回复】“蒙古人和满洲人统治中国只有350年，而你们被中国人统治了1000年”
我的逻辑非常简单。历史上并不存在中国。中国今天所认同的汉族和公元前220年代的汉人是不同的。你怎么解释那些关于满清和蒙古皇帝事迹的陵墓和电影？你是法国人，你不可能像我一样了解中国历史。

Jason.kete
However, genetic testing cannot confirm your point. Most Chinese people have genes that are not significantly different from those in the Shang and Zhou dynasties.

【回复】然而，基因检测无法证实你的观点。大多数中国人的基因与商周时期的人并没有显著差异。

Bang Na
Where do you get that test from? Is it from China? How can you get the genetic genes of the ancient Han people in the 220s?

【答主回复】你在哪里得到那个测试的？来自中国吗？你怎么能得到公元220年代古代汉族人的基因信息？

Jason.kete
This isn't my research; it's being conducted in Europe, the US, Japan, and even China itself. Most Chinese people have no essential genetic differences from those of the Neolithic Age.

【回复】这不是我的研究；这些研究正在欧洲、美国、日本，甚至中国本土开展。大多数中国人与新石器时代的人在基因上并没有本质区别。

Jason.kete
All the presidents of the People's Republic of China and the Republic of China are Han Chinese, and even more than 95% of senior officials are Han Chinese. The proportion of ethnic minorities in senior officials is very low. So it is still essentially a Han Chinese country.

【回复】中华人民共和国和中华民国的所有总统都是汉族人，甚至95%以上的高级官员也是汉族人。高级官员中少数民族的比例非常低。所以本质上它仍然是一个汉族为主的国家。

Flyhi Gao
You said Chinese dynasties fled to Vietnam after collapsing, but this mixes up cause and effect. In 99% of cases, Chinese dynasties were unified from north to south, so defeated rulers fled south to Southeast Asia. They didn’t want to go there; they just had no choice.

【回复】答主说中国的朝代在灭亡后会逃到越南，但这其实是因果倒置。在99%的情况下，中国的朝代都是从北到南统一的，所以失败的统治者才会向南逃到东南亚。他们并不是想去那里，只是别无选择。
--------------------

준혁 조 Knows Korean
Vietnam is Southeast Asia country, So they didn’t need a large, powerful central power like China …

【回答】懂韩语
越南是东南亚国家，所以他们不需要像中国那样强大的中央政权…

Dan.Peter Tue
Vietnam itself is part of China. From the Han Dynasty to the Ming Dynasty, China ruled for about 1,000 years. Many of Vietnam's cultural customs are similar to those of China. They were introduced to Vietnam from China.

【回答】
越南本身就是中国的一部分。从汉朝到明朝，中国统治了大约一千年。越南的许多文化习俗与中国相似，都是从中国传入越南的。

Minh Tran
I think people also underestimate the role of neighboring powers. If you look at Europe, large empires like Rome formed partly because their neighbors were relatively weak. Vietnam was always sandwiched between strong civilizations like China and later Siam (Thailand). Any attempt to become a world-class empire would have provoked immediate response from these neighbors.
In reality, Vietnamese rulers often had to balance tribute and diplomacy, sometimes even accepting vassal status just to buy time for survival. When you’re constantly under threat from larger neighbors, it’s hard to think about building your own empire.

【回答】
我觉得大家都低估了周边大国的作用。你看欧洲，像罗马那样的大帝国之所以能崛起，部分原因是邻国相对较弱。而越南一直夹在像中国、后来的暹罗（泰国）这样强大的文明之间。任何试图成为世界级帝国的举动，都会立刻招致这些邻国的反应。
实际上，越南的统治者经常不得不在朝贡和外交中斡旋，有时甚至接受附属国地位，只是为了争取生存空间。当你一直被更强大的邻居威胁的时候，很难考虑建立自己的帝国。

Linh Nguyen
“world-class empire” is itself a bit Eurocentric or Sinocentric. Not every society aimed for the same kind of centralized, expansionist state. Vietnamese civilization developed its own values, emphasizing village autonomy, ancestor worship, and harmony with nature.
While it’s true Vietnam didn’t create a vast empire like China, it did produce sophisticated poetry, philosophy, and folk traditions. Sometimes I feel that judging countries solely by the size of their empires ignores other forms of greatness.
Also, Vietnamese history did have periods of unity and strength, like under the Ly and Tran dynasties. But our ancestors chose to focus on consolidating their own society rather than endless warfare and conquest.

【回答】
“世界级帝国”这个概念本身有点欧洲中心或中国中心。并不是每个社会都以建立集中、扩张型国家为目标。越南文明有自己的价值观，更重视乡村自治、祖先崇拜以及与自然和谐相处。
确实，越南没有像中国那样建立庞大的帝国，但我们也创造了精致的诗歌、哲学和民间传统。我觉得只用帝国的规模来评判一个国家，忽略了其他形式的伟大。
此外，越南历史上也曾有过统一和强盛的时期，比如李朝和陈朝。但我们的祖先更愿意巩固自身社会，而不是无休止的战争与扩张。

平井堅
In a sense, you can say that the Han, Tang, and Ming dynasties are also the pride of the Vietnamese, because they were ruled by China during these three dynasties...

【回答】
从某种意义上来说，你也可以说汉、唐、明这三个朝代也是越南人的骄傲，因为越南在这三个朝代都被中国统治过…

Tom Howard
If Vietnam wants to once again become a world-class empire or dynasty, they should emulate their ancestors, become Chinese, and be ruled by Chinese dynasties like the Han, Tang, and Ming.
Now that China has regained the status it deserved for most of its history, the United States openly calls them the greatest threat, the biggest competitor, and a superpower.
If Vietnam voluntarily becomes a province of China, then that honor will belong to them, LOL.

【回答】
如果越南想要再次成为世界级的帝国或王朝，他们应该效仿他们的祖先，成为中国人，被汉、唐、明这样的中国王朝统治。
现在中国已经重新获得了它大部分历史上应有的地位，美国也公开称他们为最大的威胁、最大的竞争对手和超级大国。
如果越南自愿成为中国的一个省，那这个荣耀就属于他们了，哈哈。

Xiao Wen Lives in China
According to general historical patterns, its climate is too humid and hot. This is not conducive to the formation of large civilizations.

【回答】居住在中国
根据一般的历史模式，这里的气候过于潮湿和炎热，这不利于大型文明的形成。

Alex Zhang
I think it's important to look at the nature of geography and the impact of the environment. China has large rivers like the Yellow and Yangtze, which fostered the development of centralized states and a massive population. Vietnam, on the other hand, is long and narrow with many mountains and less arable land. This geographic constraint limited the expansion and centralization of power, making it hard to sustain a huge empire. Moreover, Vietnamese history is marked by constant invasions and threats from the north, which forced the Vietnamese to focus on survival and defense rather than outward expansion. The Vietnamese dynasties were often preoccupied with maintaining independence from China rather than building an empire of their own.

【回答】
我认为应该从地理环境和自然条件的影响来看待这个问题。中国有像黄河、长江这样的大河流，这有利于集中化国家和庞大人口的发展。而越南则地形狭长，多山，耕地相对较少。这种地理限制阻碍了权力的扩张和集中，使得维持一个庞大的帝国变得困难。更重要的是，越南历史上不断遭受来自北方的入侵和威胁，这让越南人不得不把重心放在生存和防御上，而不是对外扩张。越南的王朝更多关注如何保持独立于中国，而不是建立自己的大帝国。

Sam Le
The Chinese had a long tradition of scholar-officials and a bureaucracy selected through civil service exams. In contrast, Vietnam’s bureaucracy was smaller and less elaborate, and local clan loyalties remained strong. This limited the development of a unified, empire-wide administration.
Furthermore, Vietnamese dynasties rarely had the resources to project power far beyond their borders. Whenever they expanded, like into Champa, it was usually slow and met with fierce resistance. So even with ambition, there were practical obstacles.

【回答】
中国有着悠久的士大夫传统，通过科举选拔官员，形成庞大的官僚体系。而越南的官僚系统规模较小，也不那么复杂，当地家族势力一直很强，这限制了统一帝国管理体系的发展。
此外，越南历代王朝很少有能力把权力投射到国境线之外。每当他们向外扩张，比如征服占婆，往往推进缓慢，还会遇到激烈抵抗。所以即便有雄心，也有很多现实障碍。