[2019-12-18]红迪网（Reddit）：当白人抱怨中国/印度导致全球变暖时，给他们看看这张图片！

DesertJerboa
The western media accuses China of being the biggest polluter. When provided the fact that China has the highest population, they accuse China of overpopulation. When China reduces population using one child policy, they call it a human rights violation. When China lifts the one child policy, they pretend it never happened. When China became the world’s biggest producer of solar, wind and hydroelectric energy, they don’t say anything bullshit. When China is smoggy, they take photos and call the country a dystopia. When the government started climate protection in 2016 and the air quality in big cities improved a lot, western media is silent. I call bullshit.

西方媒体指责中国是最大的污染源。当你提供了中国人口最多的事实后，他们就指责中国人口过多。当中国实行计划生育政策来减少人口时，他们称之为对人权的侵犯。当中国取消独生子女政策时，他们假装这从未发生过。当中国成为世界上最大的太阳能、风能和水电能源生产国时，他们什么屁也没放。当中国烟雾弥漫的时候，他们拍照并称这个国家为反乌托邦。当2016年政府开始实施空气保护政策时，大城市的空气质量得到了很大改善时，而西方媒体此刻却保持了沉默。所以我认为西方媒体就是胡说八道。

SharkPing
Western media in general is shit

总的来说，西方媒体就是坨狗屎

LightSpeedX2
MainStream Media has been sold out in almost every 'democratic' country. r/AntiMSM r/MSMFakenews

几乎所有的“民主”国家的主流媒体都被收买了。

_PunxsutawneyPhil
Also they discount the fact that the west already went through heavy industrialization so they already got their heavier polluting days behind them. When the others try to catch up, all of a sudden the west feels the need to police Asia. 🙄

他们也忽视了西方已经经历过了重工业化的事实，所以他们已经度过严重污染的日子。当其它国家试图迎头赶上时，西方突然感觉有必要监督亚洲了。

DesertJerboa
Agreed. The world record for heaviest air pollution was in London in the 1950s. People were told not to open their windows. But they didn’t have any more developed countries to chide them for it.

同意。世界上最严重的空气污染记录是在20世纪50年代的伦敦。那时人们被告知不要打开窗户。 但是他们没有任何发达国家来责备他们。

welldamn32
You know thats the rock and hard place alot of Asian Males feel on a personal level in the West. It's not us that is the problem usually, it's that we rarely get the benefit of the doubt. Act nerdy and just plow through your work assignments and be an overachiever in general, oh just a typical Asian all work no fun to be around. Be assertive and outgoing? then we are "trying too hard", being a "confrontational asshole", and we should "know our place".
No matter what China does it's a problem, no matter what we do it's a problem.

你要知道，在西方，这是很多亚洲男性个人感觉最困难的地方。通常问题不在于我们，而在于我们很少能从怀疑中得到好处。表现得书呆子气，埋头于工作，总的来说想成为一个出色的人， “哦，只是一个典型的亚洲人，做什么都没意思。”要有主见和外向？那之后对我们的评价就是“努力过头了”，“咄咄逼人的混蛋”和“我们应该明白自己的位置”。
不管中国做什么都是个问题，不管我们做什么都是个问题。

Redditor215267
Don't you know, the per capita metric only applies to things such as the statistics that 13% of blacks make up 90% of violent crimes, number of illegal Hispanics/Latinos, etc. About that graph, China's the world's biggest manufacturer exporter so I'm actually surprised they're not on top. Basically this shows you Murica is full of shit. There's not much manufacturing left in the states but the polutting is insane.

难道你不知道，人均计量标准只适用于例如13% 的黑人构成了90% 的暴力犯罪，非法的西班牙人 / 拉丁美洲人的数量，等等。关于这个图表，中国是世界上最大的制造业出口国，所以我很惊讶他们居然没有在榜首。基本上，这表明美国就是个粪坑。美国已经没有多少制造业了，但还存在这种污染，简直疯了。

historybuff234
One also wonders how much of the emissions in Germany, South Korea, China, and the Arab countries are from industrial activities for American consumption.

人们还会想知道，德国、韩国、中国和阿拉伯国家的碳排放中，有多少是来自提供美国消费的工业活动。

Redditor215267
Exactly. Almost no media points that out. I like to follow science channels on YouTube, and seeker did point that out in one of its videos.Reporting should be cold hard facts, and if you have an opinion, clearly state its an opinion.

没错。几乎没有媒体指出这一点。我喜欢关注油管上的科学频道，作者有在其中一个视频中指出了这一点。新闻报道应该是铁一般的事实，如果你有一个观点，也应该清楚地陈述这个观点。

astraladventures
Yes, when looked at from the more correct stance of not only domestic pollution, but includes pollution of manufacturing products it consumes regardless where those products are made (and should include the huge pollution of related container ships), the US would likely be double or more what this chart shows.
The US is the world's number 1 polluter and is responsible for damaging our shared planet more than any other country!!!

是的，从更正确的立场来看，美国的污染不仅仅是国内造成污染，还包括它所消费的制造业产品的污染，无论这些产品是在哪里生产的(应该包括相关集装箱船的巨大污染) ，美国的污染可能是这张图片所示的两倍甚至更多。
美国是世界第一大污染国，对我们共同的星球造成的破坏，比任何其他国家都要严重！

wcet
the per capita metric only applies to things such as the statistics
Despite being less than 1% of the population, white males commit 33% of the rapes in South Korea.

人均指标只适用于统计数据之类的方面。
尽管韩国的白人男性只占总人口的不到1%，但他们却犯下了韩国33%的强奸案。

Redditor215267
Supposedly it was more than 33%.

据推测，这一比例超过33%。

AnilaKufufufufufu
The West blames global warming on China eating meat. Just think about that for a moment.

西方国家将全球变暖归咎于中国人吃肉，想一想吧。

_PunxsutawneyPhil
Also the fascination with guns too

还有对枪支的迷恋

Redditor215267
All that talk about the 2nd amendment to prevent tyranny is what they believe so it makes them feel better. I mean, I'm pro gun, but why the fuck do you need a whole armory for? They're using the 2nd amendment so they can have their little hobby. It gives easier access for them to shoot up schools.

所有关于阻止暴政的第二修正案的讨论都是他们所相信的，因为这让他们感觉良好。我的意思是，我支持持枪，但是你他妈的为什么需要一整个武器库？他们使用第二修正案来满足自己的小爱好。这使得他们更容易在学校开枪。

qwertybanker
USA has powerful car lobbyists and oil lobbyists who have been blocking high speed rails and public transport infrastructure from being built. Meanwhile China built the world's largest high speed rail network within 10 years.

美国有强大的汽车游说团体和石油游说团体，他们一直在阻挠高速铁路和公共交通基础设施的建设。与此同时，中国在10年内就建成了世界上最大的高铁网络。

Redditor215267
Good luck finding an article on that. It's washed away in the endless sea of articles about XXX etc.

希望你能找到一篇西方媒体关于这方面的报道。它被无休止的抹黑文章的海洋冲走了。

diamente1
someone please post in r/China. they banned me temporarily. they hate China over there.

麻烦有人把这贴子发在中国版块上。他们暂时拉黑我了。他们就是见不得中国好。

ablacnk
Global warming isn't a problem that emerged overnight, or even over a decade or two. The carbon in the atmosphere today that's causing global warming is largely from western sources over the past hundred+ years of pollution. It was recognized as a problem more than 60 years ago, in fact, every single president since JFK has had addressed climate change in one form or another. At that point in time China had not even industrialized, with over 80 percent of the population doing agricultural work. Meanwhile, the financial and technological resources already existed in the west, but everyone just chose to live it up rather than do anything about it.
John F. Kennedy was warned about "climate control" in February 1961, becoming perhaps the first American president to learn about people's impact on planetary temperatures.
The warnings never stopped. Every president since then has been exposed to similar scientific findings. Sometimes it was called "climatic change," other times it was "air pollution."
The history of cautionary messages with the West Wing is documented in hundreds of records submitted in Juliana v. United States, a court case against the federal government. The files show an arc of steadily improving climate science and a clearer picture of damages, even as presidents diverged on how to address the problem.

全球变暖不是一夜之间出现的问题，也不是十年或二十年后才出现的问题。今天大气中导致全球变暖的二氧化碳，主要是来自西方国家在过去一百多年的污染。事实上，60多年前，肯尼迪之后的每一位总统都以这样或那样的方式处理过气候变化的问题。在那个时候，中国甚至还没有工业化，超过80%的人口从事农业劳动。与此同时，西方国家已经拥有财力和技术资源，但每个人都选择享受生活，而不是对这问题采取任何行动。
肯尼迪在1961年2月警告要注意“气候控制”，他可能是第一位了解人类对地球温度影响的美国总统。警告从未停止，从那时起，每一位总统都接触过类似的科学发现。有时这问题被称为“气候变化”，有时被称为“空气污染”。
白宫西翼历史上这些警告信息都被记录在“朱莉安娜诉美国案”（一个针对联邦政府的法庭案件，一群年轻人起诉美国政府，要求政府对气候变化采取更有力的行动)）中的数百份记录中。这些文件显示了气候科学稳步发展的弧线，以及更清晰的损害图表，尽管总统们在如何解决这个问题上存在分歧。

defiantroa
How could US not produce more CO2 than China or India, we use more oil and natural gas than them. Frankly we are exporting the stuff out to other countries for sale.

美国怎么可能比中国或印度产生更少的二氧化碳，我们比他们使用更多的石油和天然气。坦率地说，我们正在把这些东西出口到其他国家出售。

kawaiixhapa
Per capita, US uses a shit ton of oil since everyone drives an SUV or pickup truck. India uses very little oil since no own owns a car. China is somewhere in between.

按人均计算，美国人均耗油量是一吨，因为每个人都有一辆 SUV 或小货车。印度使用很少的石油，因为没有属于自己的汽车。中国介于两者之间。

zUltimateRedditor
“But... but... brown and yellow man bad!”

“但是... 但是... 棕色皮肤和黄色皮肤的人是坏人! ”

ablacnk
China spends 3x as much as the US in green energy R&D and investments

中国在绿色能源研发和投资方面的支出是美国的3倍。

azn_superwoke
I didn't mention China or India.
Any arbitrary grouping of 1 billion people will consume more than a billionaire. Thus by your logic any one billionaire have less responsibility than the arbitrary poorest billion.
But ok, fine, you say Chinese should have more regulations, Chinese business should emit less. Ok, even if they emit less, there's more people and more businesses, so it isn't enough. In fact, China is a leader in green technology, yet by your logic, Saudi Arabia and Qatar must be super green since they have less total emissions. African countries reliant on oil like Angola and Nigeria are also super green, by your logic. After all, you said, only total emissions matter, right?

我没有提到中国或印度。
任何一个由10亿人组成的群体，其消费量都会超过一个亿万富翁。因此，按照你的逻辑，任何一个亿万富翁所承担的责任，都少于任何10亿人的群体。
但是，好吧，你说中国应该有更多的法规，中国企业应该减少排放。好吧，即使他们的排放量减少了，但是有更多的人和更多的企业，所以这是不够的。事实上，中国是绿色技术的领导者，然而按照你的逻辑，沙特阿拉伯和卡塔尔肯定是超级绿色的，因为他们的总排放量较少。按照你的逻辑，依赖石油的非洲国家，如安哥拉和尼日利亚，也是超级环保的。毕竟，你说过，只有总排放量才重要，对吧？

lindsaylbb
Even if we do absolutely nothing and just breathe for a minute we are still going to produce much more CO2 than countries of smaller populations. If anything consumption should be a human right and those Americans are not entitled to consume any more than other people. It’s funny for them to consume so much and still pointing fingers.
Though... what the hell is Qatar doing to generate so much?

即使我们什么也不做，只是呼吸一分钟，我们仍然会比人口较少的国家产生更多的二氧化碳。如果说消费应该是一项人权的话，那么这些美国人没有资格比其他人消费更多。他们吃了这么多，还指手画脚，真搞笑。
不过... 卡塔尔到底在做什么，才能产生这么多的碳排放？

kawaiixhapa
Big Oil & Gas industry with a tiny human population

庞大的石油和天然气工业，但人口却很少

kawaiixhapa
According to this data the avg American should suck it up and pollute less, not China

根据这个数据，美国人应该闭嘴，减少污染，而不是中国

rousimarpalhares_
huh? US is one of the biggest polluters per capita. just because manufacturing is dying in america doesn't mean the country as a whole is doing the right thing. they aren't. they need to be RAPIDLY moving towards nuclear with other green energies to supplement.

嗯？美国是人均污染最大的国家之一。美国的制造业正在消亡，并不意味着整个国家都在做正确的事，他们没有。他们需要迅速向核能发展，并且用其他绿色能源补充。

ablacnk
China is literally the world's factory, making everything for the rest of the world to use. The USA and other western countries basically outsourced their carbon emissions to China when they sent all the manufacturing over there. A huge part of their carbon emissions is because of western consumption, just like Qatar's emissions come from oil refineries that output for the rest of the world's use. So yeah, per-capita doesn't tell the whole story because the average Chinese citizen actually pollutes less than the numbers based on their consumption while the average American citizen actually pollutes more than the per-capita figure because they get to consume all the goods that are created in Chinese factories.

中国简直就是世界工厂，生产一切供世界其他国家使用的东西。当美国和其他西方国家把所有制造业务都转移到中国时，他们基本上就是把碳排放外包给了中国。中国的碳排放中有很大一部分来自西方国家的消费，就像卡塔尔的碳排放来自炼油厂，这些炼油厂为世界其他地区提供燃料。 所以，人均水平并不能说明全部情况，因为普通的中国公民实际上人均污染比基于他们消费的数值还要少，而普通的美国公民实际上人均污染则更高得多，因为他们可以消费中国工厂生产的所有产品。

ablacnk
And what do those factories, transportation, and farming industries exist for? PEOPLE. People demand the factories, the transportation, the farming industries. Populations matter, and as does where those factories are located. If you locate all your global factories in China, then count the carbon against the population, then export all the goods produced in those factories to western countries' POPULATIONS for consumption, what is happening? That output counts against the people in China on a per-capita basis, while the consumption is for the people in the west and doesn't count against them. So yeah, per-capita doesn't tell the whole story because it's actually favorably biased to the west and unfavorably biased to China where all the factories are located.

那么这些工厂、运输业和农业为了什么而存在的呢？人类。人们需要工厂，交通和农业。人口很重要，这些工厂的所在地也很重要。如果你把全球所有的工厂都设在中国，然后用人口来计算碳排放量，最后把这些工厂生产的所有产品出口到西方国家，让人们消费，会发生什么呢？按人均计算，这碳排放量就对中国人不利，因为这是给西方人消费的，不会对他们不利。所以，人均水平并不能说明全部情况，因为它实际上偏向于西方，而不利于拥有所有工厂的中国一方。

kawaiixhapa
So Indian poor people need to pollute less because their country is huge? Are their bicycles and ox-carts emitting too much CO2?

所以印度的穷人需要减少污染，因为他们的国家很大？他们的自行车和牛车排放了太多的二氧化碳吗？

Naos210
Yup, gotta reduce quality of life for poor developing nations instead of countries that can easily do it and are well-off.

没错，必须降低贫穷发展中国家的生活质量，而不是那些可以轻易做到并且富裕的国家。

gotatriplebeamscale
Obviously all countries have to watch their emissions
China has what, 4-5 times the population and is not even doubling the total emissions from the US is a key point
Historically, the US has been the biggest culprit of emissions from 1990 to 2015 and has been the biggest contributer to global warming so far.
Just have to watch what China does from here on, they've already promised to further reduce emissions and they've already taken up some of their word since 2015

显然，所有国家都必须关注自己的碳排放量。
中国的人口是美国的4-5倍，然而总排放量甚至达不到美国的两倍，这是一个关键。
从历史上看，从1990年到2015年，美国一直是温室气体排放的最大罪魁祸首，也是迄今为止全球变暖的最大贡献者。
只要看看中国从现在开始做了些什么，他们已经承诺进一步减少排放量，而且自2015年以来，他们已经兑现了一些承诺。

saikaushal
If you want to consider overrall values, then China's economy is number one. India also comes in 2nd or 3rd. Does this mean that China is the richest country? No it doesn't. Thats why per capita values are important.

如果你想考虑整体价值，那么中国经济排名第一，印度也排在第二或第三位。这是否意味着中国是最富有的国家？不，不是的。这就是为什么人均值是重要的。

ablacnk
Looking at overall makes less sense than looking at per-capita. You could arbitrarily divide China into a bunch of smaller countries of 327million (the population of USA) and then see that on a "per country basis" they pollute far less.
Ultimately it boils down to this:
Every single human being has the same right to live on this planet as any other, and we should have the shared responsibility and burden on taking care of the environment as well. Every American that tries to point fingers while justifying their own gluttonous western lifestyle is basically saying "I'm entitled to more of this planet than those people on the other side of the planet."

从总体上看比从人均水平上看更没有意义。你可以任意地把中国划分为一组3.27亿人口的小国家(差不多是美国的人口) ，然后看看“按国家计算”他们的污染要少得多。
归根结底是这样的：
每一个人都有与其他人一样生活在这个星球上的权利，我们也应该分担照顾环境的责任。 每一个美国人在为自己贪婪的西方生活方式辩护的时候，都试图指责别人，这基本上就是在说：“我比地球另一端的人，有资格拥有更多部分的地球。”

goodmoto
Oh right, and you seriously believe China is accurately reporting its emissions to the outside world? Ever been there?
I’m not one to pin the blame in China by default, but you’d be absurd to believe they weren’t a major contributor.

哦，对了，你真的相信中国向外界准确地报告了它的碳排放量了吗？你去过那里吗？
我不是一个把责任归咎于中国的人，但是如果你认为他们不是全球变暖的其中一个主要的贡献者，那就太荒谬了。

rousimarpalhares_
it's accurate. can also easily be verified by third parties. also when I think China I don't think lying. I think America. IMO no country is better at statistical manipulation than the US. Look into how inflation and unemployment is calculated. Here are some key words to search: labor force participation, hedonics, substition, weighting.

这图表很准确。第三方也可以很容易地验证这些数据。当我想到中国的时候，我不觉得它在撒谎。反而我认为是美国数据有问题。在我看来，没有哪个国家比美国更擅长操作统计数据。调查一下美国的通货膨胀和失业率是如何计算的。这里我给你一些谷歌搜索的关键词：劳动力参与，享乐主义，补贴，加权。

wcet
in the mind of a hater, any news that comes from china is fake. good news is not that good, bad news is actually worse.

对仇视者来说，任何来自中国的消息他都认为是假的。好消息不是好消息，坏消息是更坏的消息。

RebbyRose
This sub has really great potential to be about Asian identities, excellence, struggles and more. But instead it's whatever this post is

这个子版块真的有很大的潜力，关于亚洲的身份认同、优点、奋斗等等更多方面。但是相反，不要管里面的帖子是什么..

Bulok
Lots of mad angry racist incels lol

里面有很多愤怒的种族主义者，哈哈

MayocideNow1
lots of mad angry racist whiteys on this sub.
that means this sub is doing well

这个子版块里有很多愤怒的种族主义白人。
但这意味着这子版块做得很好。

Bulok
Per capital in this instance is not as good as total emissions. A highly developed country like America might have a higher per capita but lower total emissions than say India.

在这种情况下，人均排放量不如总排放量。像美国这样的高度发达国家的人均排放量可能高于印度，但总排放量却低于印度。

kawaiixhapa
Maybe because bigger countries have more humans emitting CO2?

也许是因为更大的国家有更多的人排放二氧化碳？

tom_strange
Yes, every country does, I know. But when your population has to wear surgical masks just to breathe outside it’s kind of a sign you better slow your roll.

是的，每个国家都这样，我知道。但是当你不得不戴着口罩在外面呼吸的时候，这就是一个信号，你最好放慢脚步。

kawaiixhapa
An American can trade in their SUV for a Prius to reduce their CO2 emissions.
Now tell me, how does an Indian guy lower his Carbon Footprint when all he has is a bike.

一个美国人可以用他们的 SUV 换一辆普锐斯来减少二氧化碳排放量。
现在告诉我，当一个印度人只有一辆自行车的时候，他要怎么降低他的碳排放量？

tom_strange
I don’t know, don’t use coal? The companies have to do it. It’s not that hard of a concept to grasp. The premise of the post was that China and India are not major polluters because their per capita pollution from co2 was lower. That’s just not true. The countries need to figure out a way. That’s all there is to it. I’m not (nor can I) solve the pollution problems of the world. I can only hope for stronger national action by each country.

我不知道，不使用煤？公司必须这么做，这个概念并不难理解。这篇文章的前提是中国和印度不是主要的污染者，因为他们的人均二氧化碳排放量较低，但这不是真的。这两个国家需要找到一种方法，仅此而已。我没法解决世界上所有的污染问题。我只能希望每个国家采取更强有力的国家行动来减少碳排放量。

meesajarjarbinks_
Typical white arrogance - you've used cheap coal, gas etc. energy, dirty factories etc. and polluted everything on Earth in order to boost your economies. Now, when it comes down to develoment of other countries, you suddenly 'care' about CO2 etc. Even then, before starting to do something with your consumption, you first point fingers at others. I guess you mean that both India and China should stop development and remain poor, so that an average American could eat 3x as them, drive a truck and produce more pollution ? Is that what you want ? If you want to contribute to less pollution, then maybe start from yourself by lowering your consumption ? I mean it's really funny, when America with its 3+ times lower population produces twice more CO2 overall than India. Btw, China is one of the world's leaders in renewables, while the US president is pushing for shale fuel usage. So yeah, the actual threat to Earth is USA with their overwhelming arrogance in every sphere.

很典型的白人傲慢：你使用廉价的煤炭、天然气等能源，开设肮脏的工厂等等，污染地球上的一切，来促进你们的经济发展。现在，当涉及到其他国家的发展时，你就突然“关心”起二氧化碳等问题。即便如此，在开始处理你的消费问题之前，你也要先指责别人。我猜你的意思是，印度和中国都应该停止发展，继续保持贫穷，这样一个普通美国人就可以吃掉三倍于他们的东西，开着卡车，制造更多的污染？这就是你想要的？如果你想减少污染，也许可以从你自己开始，降低你的消费量？
我的意思是，这真的很有趣，因为美国的人口是印度的3倍以上，二氧化碳排放总量却是印度的两倍。顺便说一句，中国是全球可再生能源领域的领导者之一，而美国总统正在推动页岩油的使用。所以，是的，对地球的真正威胁就是美国，他们在每个领域都有着绝对的傲慢。

ablacnk
Don't use coal? Then use what? This is like "let them eat cake"
China is the world leader in green energy
Not only is China today the world’s largest producer of solar panels, wind turbines, batteries and electric vehicles, but it has also been the top investor in clean energy for nine out of the last ten years, according to the Frankfurt School of Finance and Management. Since 2014, Chinese equity investment has supported a total of 12,622 megawatts (MW) of wind and solar projects in South and Southeast Asia alone, according to new research by Greenpeace.

你让他们不使用煤？那用什么? 这就像“何不食肉糜”
中国是世界绿色能源的领导者。
根据法兰克福金融管理学院的数据，中国不仅是当今世界上最大的太阳能电池板、风力涡轮机、电池和电动汽车的生产国，而且在过去十年中有九年是清洁能源的最大投资国。
绿色和平组织的最新研究显示，自2014年以来，仅在南亚和东南亚地区，中国的股权投资就支持了总计12622兆瓦的风能和太阳能项目。