[2024-12-25]Reddit评论区：迄今为止最清晰的中国新型平顶/轻型无人机航母照片

Delicious_Lab_8304
When it comes to the PLA/China in particular, getting accurate information is a challenge. For those who are knowledgeable, greater reliance is placed on OSINT (from reputable sources within and outside of China) than in comparison to any other military/country. This is due to things like language barriers and the PLA’s over the top obsession with OPSEC for even trivial matters.
Even established (and ostensibly learned media) consistently get things wrong. Just look at the supposed “White Emperor 6th gen design”, or the J-20 being a long range un-manoeuvrable interceptor, or the J-35 supposedly being SAC’s losing bid in the J-XX program, or the supposedly self-declared “2027 Taiwan invasion timeline” - the list is endless.

获取关于解放军的信息确实有难度。对于那些知识渊博的人来说，比起其他国家/军队，他们更多地依赖于开放源情报（中国境内外有信誉的来源）。这是由于语言障碍，以及解放军对即使是琐碎事务也过度痴迷于操作安全的原因。即便是一些知名的媒体也常常出错。比如所谓的“白帝六代机设计”，或者J-20被认为是远程但不灵活的截击机，或者J-35被认为是沈飞在J-XX项目中的失败竞标，或者所谓的“2027年进攻台湾时间表”——这样的例子不胜枚举。

mr_cake37
Does anyone think we might see a return of small, light "escort carrier" vessels, but purely as drone carriers?

有人认为我们可能会看到小型轻量级“护航航母”的回归，然而纯粹作为无人机航母吗？

xblackjesterx -> mr_cake37
This is the future and the crews will get smaller and smaller

这是未来，船员会越来越少。

Papppi-56 -> xblackjesterx
Future of regional / littoral operations and low intensity warfare perhaps. Actual naval warfare (in the traditional sense) between near peers would be still fought by conventional carriers and large surface combatants.

未来可能是区域/沿海作战和低强度战争。近似实力的国家之间的实际海战（传统意义上）仍将由常规航母和大型水面战舰进行。

flowingfiber -> Papppi-56
Yes but these smaller drone carriers seem perfect for fulfilling the roles of escort carrier they can us ucav's for ground attack mission and helicopters for asw or amphibious operations.

是的，但这些小型无人机航母似乎非常适合执行护航航母的角色，它们可以使用无人作战飞机进行对地攻击任务，也可以使用直升机进行反潜或两栖作战。

Papppi-56 -> flowingfiber
These vessels wouldn’t be able to support anything above a mid sized ucav, let alone manned helicopters

这些舰艇无法承载中型以上无人作战飞机，更别提载人直升机了。

slamchop -> Papppi-56
"Large navies will always require the battleship."

“大型海军总是需要战列舰。”

teethgrindingaches -> slamchop
Battleships were replaced because carriers simply did their job (delivering lots of firepower from long range) better.   
Fleet carriers will not be replaced by smaller carriers because smaller carriers are inherently worse at the same job. Because that’s how physics works. A smaller ship with shorter range carrying even shorter-ranged assets simply does not do the same job (hell it can’t even show up at the same job site). Those ships could certainly excel at a different job, but they will not replace fleet carriers.

战列舰之所以被取代，是因为航母能更好地完成自己的任务（从远距离输送大量火力）。
舰队航母不会被小型航母取代，因为小型航母在同样的工作上本来就比舰队航母差。毕竟物理学上就是这样。一艘航程更短的小型舰艇携带更短射程的资产，根本无法完成同样的工作（它甚至无法出现在同样的工作地点）。这些舰艇当然可以胜任不同的工作，但它们不会取代舰队航母。

ResearcherAtLarge -> teethgrindingaches
Battleships were replaced because carriers simply did their job (delivering lots of firepower from long range) better.
This is a quibble but I think it also agrees with something you stated.
There was more to the aircraft carrier replacing the battleship than simply delivering firepower - it was also the ability to find the enemy. Previous to WWII the Navy had two main separate forces, Battle Force and Scout Force (plus some other smaller commands like Base Force, but not really relevant to this discussion). Scout Force was largely cruisers and destroyers, fast ships that could find the enemy forces and last long enough to report their position so that Battle Force could come in and do the deed. The Navy even had planned to experiment with "flying Deck Cruisers" which were similar in many respects to the CVLs developed later as war gaming had shown a promising increase in effectiveness over standard cruisers. The Scout Force/Battle Force division was already on the way out in 1941, but the increase in the number of aircraft carriers after 1943 was the final nail in the coffin and admission that carriers could both find and take the battle to the enemy better.
The drone carriers, having smaller airframes, won't have quite the "eyes" a super carrier does, as you allude to. But that may be more than sufficient for controlling sea lanes when the traffic is largely civilian and not combatant (watch out for them submarines, though!).

“战列舰之所以被取代，是因为航母能更好地完成自己的任务（从远距离输送大量火力）”
这是个争论点，但我认为这也符合你所说的。
航母取代战列舰不仅仅是为了提供火力，还有发现敌人的能力。二战之前，海军主要有两支独立的部队：战斗部队和侦察部队（还有一些其他较小的司令部，如基地部队，但与本讨论无关）。侦察部队主要由巡洋舰和驱逐舰组成，这些快速舰艇可以发现敌军，并持续足够长的时间报告其位置，以便战斗部队可以赶来执行任务。海军甚至计划试验 “飞行甲板巡洋舰”，这种巡洋舰在许多方面与后来开发的轻型航母（CVL）类似，因为战争兵推显示，与标准巡洋舰相比，“飞行甲板巡洋舰 ”的效能有望提高。1941年，“侦察部队/战斗部队 ”的分工已经逐渐消失，但1943年后航母数量的增加是最后的钉子，也承认了航母可以更好地发现敌人并与之作战。
无人机航母由于拥有较小的机体，不会有超级航母那样的“眼睛”。但在海上交通主要是民用而非作战的情况下，这可能已经足够用来控制海上航道了（不过还是要小心潜艇！）。

musashisamurai -> slamchop
I think this is less comparing battleships to carriers, and more comparing battleships to the torpedo boats a la jeune ecole. The jeune ecole failed because while the torpedkes could sink a battleship, the ships and weapins lacked range and therefore lacking power projection. A large fleet carrier has power projection in spades, and it wouldn't matter how many drones a small carrier can have if a stealth strike fighter can attack the mothership and sink it, while the larger carrier is safely away from the drones' max range. (And the carrier with catapults has an further advantage on range).
That said, whether its joining a carrier group for support, doing low intensity missions all around the world, literal operations where a carrier is too vulnerable, or some other special operations mission, i see drone ships and light carriers returning. My ideal one would probably look like the Independence-class LCS, using the mission bay as another hangar, and expaning the ship further so the bay/hangar is longer and/or adding a small VLS array to it. (It won't ever out fire a destroyer, but making sure its not helpless on its own).
As an aside, has the light carrier ever truly gone away? It seems to me sometimes its just semantics. Maybe the Japanese helicopter destroyers are the way to go.

我认为这不仅仅是战列舰和航母的比较，更像是战列舰与青年学派的鱼雷艇的比较。青年学派之所以失败，是因为虽然鱼雷可以击沉战列舰，但战列舰和武器射程不足，因此缺乏武力投射。大型舰队航母拥有强大的武力投射，如果隐形战斗机能攻击轻型母舰并将其击沉，而大型航母又能安全地远离无人机的最大射程，那么轻型航母拥有多少无人机也就不重要了。(拥有弹射器的航母在射程上更有优势）。
话虽如此，无论是加入航母编队进行支援、在世界各地执行低强度任务、在航母不堪一击的地方执行实际行动，还是执行其他特殊作战任务，我都认为无人舰艇和轻型航母将会回归。我理想中的轻型航母可能会像独立级濒海战斗舰那样，将任务舱用作另一个机库，并进一步扩展舰体，使机库更长和/或增加一个小型垂直发射系统阵列。(它的火力不会超过驱逐舰，但要确保它不会孤立无援）。
顺便说一句，轻型航母真的消失过吗？在我看来，有时只是语义上的。也许日本的直升机驱逐舰才是正确的选择。

gsfgf -> Papppi-56
A lot depends on the unknown of how carriers can deal with modern subs and torpedoes.

这在很大程度上取决于航母如何应对现代潜艇和鱼雷的未知因素。

Foolish_heart22 -> mr_cake37
More likely we’re going to see the return of helicopter cruisers, just as drone cruisers. Escort carriers make some sense, but it’s better to have the versatility of light carriers rather than an escort.

我们更有可能看到直升机巡洋舰的回归，就像无人机巡洋舰一样。护航航母有一定的意义，但与其说是护航航母，不如说是多功能的轻型航母。

tmp6bf -> Foolish_heart22
Just put vls cells on everything

只需要在所有地方都装上垂直发射单元就好了

Foolish_heart22 -> tmp6bf
At that point all you really have to do is target all the small ships that can’t defend themselves or program your missiles to act like they’re attacking the small ships which will force the big ship to defend the small ships and then they all readjust and attack the big ship. Either way you’re still going to lose either important ships or more ships.

在这种情况下，你所要做的就是瞄准所有无法自卫的小型舰船，或者编程让你的导弹看起来像是在攻击小型舰船，这将迫使大型舰船保护小型舰船，然后它们会重新调整并攻击大型舰船。不管怎样，你都会失去重要的船只或更多的船只。

Foolish_heart22
The biggest problem for escort carriers from World War II is that they were simply not designed to keep up with the fleet as they were only meant to keep up with merchant vessels. What essentially became true light carriers during the war were designed to be able to keep up with the fleet but be small enough to operate more independently of major battleship groups.

二战时期，护航航母最大的问题是它们本来就没有设计成与舰队同行，而只是为了跟上商船的速度。真正成为轻型航母的那些舰船则在战争期间被设计成能够跟上舰队，同时又小到可以更独立地行动，不依赖于大型战列舰群。

Foolish_heart22
The nice thing about a for lack of a better name drone cruiser would be that it could carry cruiser grade weaponry, but still operate drones to give it increased range and flexibility in a much smaller package than a normal carrier. That’s not to say that it would replace aircraft carriers as the capabilities are actually quite different but it would be an interesting supplement to a fleet.

一种暂且称之为无人机巡洋舰的好处在于，它可以携带巡洋舰级别的武器，同时操作无人机，以更小的体积提供更大的射程和灵活性。虽然无人机巡洋舰无法取代航母，因为两者的能力实际上有很大不同，但它作为舰队的补充将会是一个有趣的选择。

dachjaw -> Foolish_heart22
Did WW2 CVLs ever operate independently of the carrier task forces?

二战中的CVL有过独立于航母特遣舰队行动吗？

Foolish_heart22 -> dachjaw
CVL? Are you referring to light carriers or escort carriers?
As far as I’m aware, the escort carriers never operated outside of a task group. But that’s mostly because they were converted merchant ships and didn’t have the ability to operate independently or even effectively with the main battle fleet.
Main battle carriers, and the effective light carriers that were produced in Portland in Vancouver Washington on the other hand were built as true fleet combat with all the speed and armor necessary to maintain operations in the main battle theater.

CVL？你指的是轻型航母还是护航航母？
据我所知，护航航母从未在编队之外单独行动过。这主要是因为它们是由商船改装而来的，没有能力独立作战，也无法有效地与主力舰队合作。另一方面，在华盛顿州温哥华的波特兰生产的主力航母和高效的轻型航母则是作为真正的舰队作战舰艇建造的，具备在主要战区维持作战所需的速度和装甲。

dachjaw -> Foolish_heart22
I meant light carriers, hence the use of CVL. If I meant escort carriers I would have used CVE.
The post I was responding to said CVLs were designed to operate independently from major battleship groups. I was asking if they ever did, since during WW2 battleships mostly operated as carrier task force escorts (some exceptions apply if you live in the Solomons).

我指的是轻型航母，所以用了CVL这词。如果我指的是护航航母，我会用CVE。
我在回复的帖子中说，轻型航母的设计目的是独立于主要战列舰编队作战。我问的是它们是否曾独立作战过，因为在二战期间，战列舰大多作为航母特遣部队的护航舰（如果你住在所罗门群岛，有一些例外的情况）。

beachedwhale1945 -> dachjaw
So let’s clear up a couple things.
When ordered in early 1942 (for most light carriers), the intent was to have light carriers either augment a group of larger carriers or act as independent carriers (with escorts). At the time, carriers were assigned to various scouting fleets, battleships to battle fleets, and only rarely were they assigned to the same fleet. Battleships as escorts was certainly on the table by this point, but the intent was typically for the battleships to split off if ever presented with a probable surface engagement (where the carriers would operate in support by attacking enemy carriers, providing combat air patrol, scouting for targets, and attacking targets of opportunity or that could not be engaged by other forces).
Some good example of light carriers operating independently of other carriers and battleships come from the Japanese. Shōhō at Coral Sea is perhaps the most well known, but others include Ryūjō during the invasion of the Philippines and Malaya. After Midway (where the light carriers were attached to battleships for scouting/combat air patrol duties), Japan tended to use the light carriers to supplement larger carriers, which was also the standard US practice. Offhand I don’t know of any independent operations after that point (apart from attacking targets in transit to the combat area), but I also haven’t analyzed all their movements in detail (which is also why I’m ignoring the British) and my studies in the past few months have focused on destroyer locations.

让我们来理清一些事。
在1942年初下达订单时，轻型航母的设计意图是要么增强大型航母编队，要么作为独立航母（与护航舰一起）行动。当时，航母被分配到各种侦察舰队，战列舰则分配到战斗舰队，只有很少情况下它们会被分配到同一个舰队。在那时已经有让战列舰作为护航舰的想法了，但通常情况下，如果遇到可能的水面交战，战列舰会与航母分开行动，而航母则通过攻击敌方航母、提供战斗空中巡逻、侦察目标，以及攻击那些其他武力无法攻击的目标来提供支持。
关于轻型航母独立于其他航母和战列舰行动的好例子是来自日本。珊瑚海战役中的“祥凤”号或许是最为人所知的例子，其他还有在菲律宾和马来亚入侵期间的“龙骧”号。中途岛战役之后（轻型航母在其中被分配给战列舰执行侦察/战斗空中巡逻任务），日本倾向于使用轻型航母来补充大型航母，这也是美国的标准做法。随后的独立行动我并不清楚（除了在前往战斗区域途中攻击目标外），但我也没有详细分析它们的所有行动（这也是为什么我忽略了英国），而且我最近几个月的研究主要集中在驱逐舰的位置上。

Foolish_heart22 -> dachjaw
Thank you, I wasn’t aware that there was a distinction between the two, but that makes a lot of sense.

谢谢，我之前没有意识到这两者之间有区别，但这确实很有道理。

Foolish_heart22 -> dachjaw
Theoretically the light carriers could operate away from the main carrier, battle groups, mostly due to the fact that they were smaller and considered more or less expendable compared to a main carrier. That doesn’t mean that operate with escorts ships, but those escorts were generally much lighter. Whether or not those lighter task groups operated away from larger carrier groups was probably more related to the needs of a specific battle zone. As far as I’m aware, most light carriers of the combat orientation were used to support the larger carrier groups or independent task forces that needed carriers, but weren’t important enough to require a full size carrier.

理论上，轻型航母可以远离主航母战斗群独立行动，主要是因为它们体积较小，相较于主航母，它们被认为是可消耗的。这并不意味着它们不需要护航舰，只是这些护航舰通常较轻型。轻型航母战斗群是否远离大型航母群作战，可能更多地取决于特定战区的需要。据我所知，大多数战斗型轻型航母是用于支援较大的航母群或需要航母的独立特遣队，但这些特遣队还不够重要，不需要配置全尺寸航母。

Papppi-56
Now many people and reports have pointed out this vessel being supposedly a "civilian carrier / research ship" given its CSSC "commercial-style markings". But based on slogans hanged on the vessel's superstructure during outfitting reading "以建设强大海军 服务国家为自己任务" (Taking building a strong navy and serving the country as our mission):

It is extremely unlikely that this vessel is of actual civilian ownership or purpose, given similar slogans are only seen / allowed on naval and dual-purpose platforms, reinforced by the vessels PLAN-like paint job. Contrary to belief, similar "commercial style markings" are also present on multiple PLAN auxiliary and dual-purpose ships, which are usually overlooked owing to their relative insignificance compared to major surface combatants. The flattop in question could serve a similar auxiliary role to the PLAN, used as a training / testing vessel somewhat blurring the lines between military and civilian.
Edit: The deck view of the ship somehow reminds me of the HMS Invincible

很多人和报道都说，这艘船应该是“民用运输/科考船”，因为它有中船集团的“商业风格标志”。但根据在船只舾装期间悬挂在上层建筑的如下标语“以建设强大海军 服务国家为自己任务”。

这艘船极有可能不是实际的民用船只或用于民用目的，因为类似的标语通常只出现在海军和双用途平台上，加上这艘船的涂装很像中国海军的风格。与普遍的看法相反，类似的“商业风格标志”也出现在多艘中国海军的辅助和双用途船只上，但由于与主要水面作战舰艇相比，相对不那么显眼，通常被忽视。所讨论的这艘平顶船可能在中国海军中担任类似的辅助角色，用作训练或测试船只，在某种程度上模糊了军用和民用之间的界限。
从甲板视图来看，这艘船让我想起了无敌级航母。

beachedwhale1945 -> Papppi-56
Some time ago someone posted the contract requirements, which thanks to google translate led to this summary by past me:
This is a 15,000 ton (design displacement), 200 meter long ship with a 38.8 meter beam. The ship was described as a test platform intended for special missions, marine survey, and scientific research, and is expected to be a UAV carrier for UAV experimentation/trials (rather than using other ships that can instead focus on operational missions) and limited combat missions. She’s being built at a shipyard that typically builds auxiliaries, not proper warships, and combined with these photos the very limited combat capability is apparent. The through-length flight deck is 25 meters wide, and the contract calls for a hangar and well deck in the stern. The required performance was a speed of 16 knots, a range of 5,000 nautical miles at not less than 12 knots, and an endurance of 40 days (stores rather than fuel).
The well deck apparently was a different intended configuration than what we’d normally use, possibly a translation issue or oversimplifying the summary I saw.
I have heard nothing about the slogans or civilian style markings, but the ship overall is clearly an austere carrier for at most light combat, a half step above the Iranian carrier we were tearing apart the other day (because logical island placement of a purpose-built ship). For a trials carrier, this is all you really need, so that lack of capability is fine.
What it does allow is the proper carriers and LHDs can focus on their actual missions instead of development testing, and the testing equipment can be semi-permanent for more consistent and therefore effective testing.

前段时间，有人贴出了合同要求，多亏了谷歌翻译，我总结了以下内容：
这是一艘设计排水量为15,000吨、长200米、宽38.8米的船。这艘船被描述为用于特殊任务、海洋调查和科学研究的测试平台，并预计将成为无人机试验的无人机航母（而不是使用其他可以专注于作战任务的船只）和有限的作战任务。她正在一家通常建造辅助船而不是正规军舰的船厂建造，从这些照片中可以看出其非常有限的作战能力。贯通式飞行甲板宽25米，合同要求在船尾设有机库和坞舱。所需性能为速度16节，不低于12节的航程为5,000海里，续航时间为40天（更多储备而非燃料）。
坞舱显然与我们通常使用的配置不同，可能是翻译问题或者我看到的摘要过度简化了。我没有听说过关于标语或民用风格标记的事情，但总体来说，这艘船显然是一艘简易的航母，最多只能进行轻度作战，比我们前几天讨论的伊朗航母高半个档次（因为它是专门建造的船，岛式布局合理）。对于试验航母来说，这些就足够了，即使能力不足也是可以接受的。
这使得真正的航母和两栖攻击舰可以专注于它们的实际任务，而不是用来开发测试。而试验设备可以是半永久的，从而让试验更一致、更有效。

kegman83 -> beachedwhale1945
This screams "plausible deniability" light carrier.

这明显就是一艘“合理否认”的轻型航母。

teethgrindingaches -> kegman83
Technical explanations aside, as the other guy already covered that, why the hell would the PLAN need plausible deniability? They are quite openly commissioning far more lethal assets, and in far larger numbers. No navy needs “plausible deniability” for adding warships when that’s literally their raison d'être.

撇开技术层面的解释不谈，因为另一个人已经讲过了，为什么中国海军需要合理否认？他们相当公开地在建造更多更具杀伤力的装备，而且数量也很庞大。任何海军在增加军舰时都不需要“合理否认”，因为这本来就是他们的存在意义。

beachedwhale1945 -> kegman83
This isn’t even close to a light carrier, or even an LHD.

这根本算不上轻型航母，甚至不像两栖攻击舰。

kegman83 -> beachedwhale1945
Its a light carrier thats going to operate drones.

这是一艘用于操作无人机的轻型航母。

beachedwhale1945 -> kegman83
Cavour is the type specimen for a modern light carrier. This ship is several steps below Cavour in capability, and below every LHA/LHD and LPH currently in service.

加富尔是现代轻型航母的典型代表。这艘船的能力比加富尔低几个档次，也低于目前服役的所有两栖攻击舰和两栖指挥舰。

Irejectmyhumanity16 -> beachedwhale1945
Giuseppe Garibaldi is better example for light carrier and this ship is heavier and bigger.

加里波第号是轻型航母的典范，而这首船更重、更大。

beachedwhale1945 -> Irejectmyhumanity16
Garibaldi was completed in 1985 and retired two months ago after a very long 40 year service life. She is not a modern ship.
But even here Garibaldi had double the speed (very important for wind over the deck), had two elevators rather than one, and was built to military standards by a shipyard with extensive experience in building warships. This ship is significantly less capable even from the statistics we know, nevermind the ones we don’t (how large is the hangar, for example).

加里波第号在1985年建成，并在两个月前退役，服役长达40年。她不是一艘现代化的舰船。但即便如此，加里波第号的速度是这艘船的两倍（在甲板上的风速非常重要），并且有两个升降机而不是一个，由具有丰富建造军舰经验的造船厂按军事标准建造。从我们已知的统计数据来看，这艘船的能力明显不如加里波第号，更不用说我们不知道的数据（例如机库的大小）。

Irejectmyhumanity16 -> beachedwhale1945
Garibaldi being old doesn't change the fact that it was light carrier which is about tonnage and size and this ship is bigger and heavier than Garibaldi so it has potential to be more capable by having more space and capacity.

加里波第虽然老旧，但这并不能改变它是一艘轻型航母的事实，这与吨位和尺寸有关，而这艘船比加里波第更大更重，所以从更多的空间和容量来看，它很有变强的潜力。

beachedwhale1945 -> Irejectmyhumanity16
Warship category definitions shift over time. Would we consider a ship similar to Wickes or Acasta a destroyer by modern standards? Even a Fletcher would be impossible to justify by 2024 standards.
So too with light carriers.
But a ship’s classification is far more than just the size. By displacement (the most accurate way to determine ship size) the Sangamon and Commencement Bay class escort carriers were larger than the Independence and Saipan class light carriers built at the same time: 24,725 tons full load vs. 15,100 and 18,760 tons. The CVEs were clearly less capable than the CVLs (lower speed, smaller hangars, reduced magazine capacity, etc.), and so were used in more rear line duties fitting with their lower classification status.
So too with this Chinese ship. The contract called for a maximum speed of only 16 knots, half of Garibaldi’s 30+ knots. The Chinese ship has only a single elevator compared to Garibaldi’s two, and in reading the contract specifications again it only calls for a half-length hangar deck (“The hangar space is reserved at the forward end of the main hull” with a dock compartment aft), while Garibaldi had a full-length hangar. The ship is built to mercantile standards at a yard that does not build warships, while Garibaldi was built to military standards at a yard that was a major warship builder at the time.
These are not comparable ships, and clearly show why relying too much on displacement for classifications leads to incorrect conclusions.

军舰类别的定义会随着时间的推移而改变。按照现代标准，我们会将类似于 "威克斯 "号或 "阿卡斯塔 "号的舰艇视为驱逐舰吗？即时按照 2024 年的标准，弗莱彻号也很难证明其合理性。
轻型航母也是如此。
但是，舰艇的分类远不止于尺寸。按排水量（确定舰艇大小的最准确方法）计算，"桑加蒙 "级和 "开曼湾 "级护航航母比同期建造的 "独立 "级和 "塞班 "级轻型护航航母更大：满载排水量为 24725 吨，而 "独立 "级和 "塞班 "级分别为 15100 吨和 18760 吨。护航航母的能力显然不如轻型航母（航速较低、机库较小、弹仓容量较少等），因此被用于更后方的任务，符合其较低的分类地位。
这艘中国船也是如此。合同规定的最大航速只有 16 节，是加里波第号 30 多节航速的一半。这艘中国船只有一部升降机，而加里波第有两部，再看合同说明，只要求半长的机库甲板（"机库空间预留在主船体前端"，船尾是船坞隔间），而加里波第有全长的机库。这艘船是按商船标准建造的，建造船厂也不是主要的军舰制造商，而加里波第号则是按军事标准在当时一个主要的军舰建造厂建造的。
这两艘船不具有可比性，这清楚地表明过于依赖排水量进行分类会导致错误的结论。

flowingfiber -> Papppi-56
Is it possible the huge island serves as a small UAV hanger similar to the multi purpose support ship Damen is building for Portugal which also has such a hanger in its island

这个巨大的舰岛是否有可能用作小型无人机的机库？就像达门公司为葡萄牙建造的多用途支援舰一样？

Papppi-56 -> flowingfiber
These are used more likely as a research facility / command center for unmanned operations / testing, not a hanger

这些更可能被用作无人操作/测试的研究设施/指挥中心，而不是机库。

agoia -> [Deleted]
It's a dual island config. The forward island has a navigation bridge.and the aft island has the flight control bridge. I also didnt see any elevators either, which is kinda weird.

这是一种双岛配置。前岛是导航舰桥，后岛是飞行控制舰桥。我也没有看到任何升降机，这有点奇怪。

Kaka_ya -> agoia
Negative. This is a triple island design. Those Chinese mad ass put three island on this thing.

不是。这是三岛设计。那些疯狂的中国人在这上面装了三个舰岛。

Papppi-56 -> [Deleted]
I got that impression after seeing that picture, it isn't a military grade ship. Certainly their testing the concept out. Remote sailing or satellite control?
Neither is the HMS Ocean, and that ship has now served in two different navies for almost 30 years (although this Chinese flattop looks like it's probably built at an even lower standard). This ship could probably at most carry out some low intensity combat operations on top of its research / training role, though that probably wouldn't be necessary given the size of the PLAN. Remote sailing from what I understand is being carried out by a few smaller non-flattop experimental vessels launched by the same shipyard (drone motherships), so this ship should probably focus more on the aviation and support side of things.

我看到那张照片后，感觉这不是一艘军用级别的船。当然，他们正在测试这个概念。是遥控航行还是卫星控制？
海洋号两栖攻击舰也不是军用级别的，那艘船在两支不同的海军中服役了近30年（尽管这艘中国平顶船看起来可能建造标准更低）。这艘船除了它的研究/训练角色，最多可以执行一些低强度的作战任务，不过考虑到中国海军的规模，这可能没有必要。据我所知，同一个船厂推出了一些较小的非平顶实验船（无人机母舰）正在进行遥控航行测试，所以这艘船可能更应该专注于航空和支援方面。

kegman83 -> Papppi-56
They are going to park this off those islands in the South China Sea and just harass everyone they can with "civilian" aircraft.

他们打算把这个停在南海的那些岛屿附近，然后用“民用”飞机去骚扰所有人。

teethgrindingaches -> kegman83
Makes no sense, seeing as there are far larger and more capable airbases on said islands already, if they wanted to do that. 

这毫无意义，鉴于那些岛屿上已经有了规模更大、能力更强的空军基地了，如果他们想这么做的话。

YoungSavage0307
that island structure is...unique to say the least.

那个舰岛的结构... 至少可以说是独一无二的。

conrat4567
So, just a helicopter carrier but for drones? I see the value in them, but surely they have very specific use cases? I can't see them being able to operate alone

所以，只是一个用于无人机的直升机航母？我能理解它们的价值，但它们肯定有非常特定的使用场景吧？我觉得它们无法单独行动

Glory4cod -> conrat4567
There are hundreds of small tolls and islands in South China Sea. You won't use fleet carriers and CSGs for these patrolling missions, especially when your enemies' navies are not any major naval power.

在南海有数百个小礁石和岛屿。对于这些巡逻任务，你不会使用舰队航母和航母战斗群，尤其是当你的敌人海军并不是什么主要海上力量时。

LowOnDairy
Reminds me of escort carriers

让我想起了护航航母

beachedwhale1945 -> LowOnDairy
Closer to a Merchant Aircraft Carrier, as escort carriers kinda indirectly evolved into LHDs (they were retained for assault helicopter conversions but ultimately purpose-built ships won out).

更接近于商船航母，因为护航航空母舰有点间接地演变成了两栖攻击舰（它们被保留下来用于攻击直升机的改装，但最终还是专用舰艇胜出）。

dachjaw -> beachedwhale1945
I’ll respectfully disagree. The point of the MACs was that they still carried cargo, despite deploying an air wing

我不敢苟同。商船航母的关键在于，尽管部署了航空联队，但它们仍然可以运载货物。

beachedwhale1945 -> dachjaw
The air feather is why the MACs are a closer comparison than a CVE (and to be clear I’m referring specifically to those with a hangar). No this ship will not carry cargo, but everything I am seeing here says the actual aircraft capability of this ship is going to be minimal (I haven’t even discussed the practically nonexistent deck park to keep the landing area clear), much lower than any other through-deck carrier in service.

航空联队，正是说明了为什么商船航母比护航航母更具可比性（明确地说，我指的是有机库的商船航母）。
不，图上这艘航母不会运载货物，但我所看到的一切都表明，这艘航母的实际载机能力会是微乎其微的（我甚至还没有讨论到几乎没有为保持起降区畅通而设立的甲板停机坪），远远低于现役的任何其他直通甲板航母。

Foolish_heart22
I know it’s a little small for it, but I can see how people thought that it would have an angled recovery deck. Looks like all you really have to do is move one of the towers forward a little bit and add the appropriate sections to the flat top.

我知道它有点小，但我能理解为什么人们会认为它会有一个斜角的回收甲板。看起来你只需要把其中一个塔楼往前移一点，然后在平顶上加上相应的部分就可以了。

commanche_00
Anti-sub carrier

反潜航母

AnInfiniteAmount
Izumo-class we have at home

我们家里有出云级

looklikeaF35 -> AnInfiniteAmount
na, we have 4 type 075s at home.

呐，我们家里有4艘075型。

der_karschi
Straight up a ww2 design

简直就是二战时期的设计

Aware_Style1181
It’s a Drone Carrier.

这是无人机航母。

Papppi-56 -> Aware_Style1181
Some people wouldn’t be convinced until they see actual PLANAF drones start flying off this ship

有些人直到看到真正的解放军无人机从这艘船上起飞时才会相信。

Foolish_heart22 -> Papppi-56
This is a bit of a far-fetched idea, but it almost looks like a if someone took the concept of a support frigate from the Home World Series and attach it to a modern naval sense. I mean, it doesn’t have any hanger lifts, but if the drones are just landing to be refuel and resupply before taking off and continuing patrols, that would make a lot of sense, that would allow them to use it both as a flight research vessel and station it behind active combat lines to rear and resupply drones for continuous operation without them having to return to a land base or use valuable space on a combat carrier.

这个想法有点牵强，但看起来就像是有人把《家园》系列中的支援护卫舰概念应用到了现代海军。我的意思是，它没有机库升降机，但如果无人机只是降落进行加油和补给，然后继续巡逻，这就很有意义了。这样可以同时作为飞行研究船，并部署在战斗线后方，为无人机提供后方补给保障，从而实现连续作战，而不必返回陆地基地或占用战斗航母的宝贵空间。

Papppi-56 -> Foolish_heart22
that would allow them to use it both as a flight research vessel and station it behind active combat lines to rear and resupply drones for continuous operation without them having to return to a land base or use valuable space on a combat carrier.
I think that while platforms like these aren't nearly enough to support manned aircraft and more advanced drones (GJ-11, Sharp Sword etc.), they should able to serve as somewhat of a permanent / semi-permanent platform for smaller VTOL / STOVL drones upwards to the size of a Bayraktar TB2 / TB3, which we have seen being tested out on the Shandong and other flat tops in the last few years.


“这样可以同时作为飞行研究船，并部署在战斗线后方，为无人机提供后方补给保障，从而实现连续作战，而不必返回陆地基地或占用战斗航母的宝贵空间”
我认为，虽然这样的平台不足以支持载人飞机和更先进的无人机（如GJ-11、利剑等），但它们应该能够作为小型垂直起降/短距起飞和垂直降落无人机的永久/半永久平台，规模可以达到Bayraktar TB2/TB3的大小。我们在过去几年已经看到这些无人机在山东舰和其他平顶舰上进行测试了。


Foolish_heart22 -> Papppi-56
That’s what exactly what I was thinking. That they would use them to operate drones and free up space on carriers but they would only be used to resupply rather than actually do maintenance on or permanently based off of.

我也是这么想的。他们会用它们来操作无人机，腾出航母上的空间，但它们只会用于补给，而不是进行维护或永久驻扎。

rude453 -> Papppi-56
I thought GJ-11 and Sharp Sword are the same thing?

我以为GJ-11和利剑是同一个东西？

Papppi-56 -> rude453
It is

是同个东西

kittennoodle34
Definitely can't be intended for combat service, even if it's attached to the navy. No aircraft lifts, island integrated hangers or well deck really limit what it can do in an operational sphere; research of some kind (civil or not) will certainly be the intended purpose. The idea of a ship that just relies on drones for strike is still a little out of reach despite our current advancements, it will be interesting to see what becomes of this and whether any other countries follow suit with experimental flat tops.

即使它隶属于海军，也肯定不是用于战斗的。没有飞机升降机、岛式整合机库或坞舱，这些都大大限制了它在作战领域的能力；某种研究（无论是民用的还是其他用途）肯定是它的预定目的。仅依靠无人机进行打击的舰船，这一理念以我们的技术发展仍有些遥不可及。看看这会有什么后续，以及是否有其他国家会效仿这种实验性的平顶船，值得期待。

MGC91 -> kittennoodle34
No aircraft lifts
There's at least one aircraft lift I can see, in between the two islands.

“没有飞机升降机 ”
在两个舰岛之间，我看到至少有一个飞机升降机。