[2024-03-21]Reddit评论区：为什么美国要视中国为地缘政治对手?

XSGuo
Q: Why does the United States want to consider China as a geopolitical adversary?
A:
It is due to the Christian culture. Christians worship God, and God is a warrior. Proverbs 9:10 says: "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding." That’s the Western idea of governance. If you want to rule the world, let the world fear you.
The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli is a classic political philosophy work. The book is still a must-read by students in political science. Niccolo Machiavelli says that if you want to rule, you must be feared. It is the essential political philosophy rooted in the Christian culture.
The US considers China as an adversary because China does not fear the US. That breaks the foundation of the Western world order as the world order is built on fear. After the US dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the US thought that the world should fear the US. Yet, Mao simply despised it and said that the atomic bomb was a paper tiger.
China has long been advocating a relationship of mutual respect with the US, and the US never accepts the idea of mutual respect. The US considers it a world leader and the world leader should be feared. The US fantasies that China should fear the US. That’s the rule-based order.
Chinese political culture is a Confucian idea that rulers should be loved. This idea is exactly what Niccolo Machiavelli doubted. Niccolo Machiavelli says that a ruler cannot rule by being loved.
How is a happy life? living daily in fear of in love? Which ruler do you prefer? A ruler you fear or a ruler you love? If you read the Bible, the Christian ideal governance model of rule by God is to obey and fear God.
In 2006, leaders of 48 African countries gathered in Beijing for the China-Africa Summit. In response, the US established Africom in 2007. Africa had been living under the fear of the Western powers for centuries and finally had a power that would love them. That’s not the rule-based order of the Western powers. The rule-based order is based on fear, and the US established the Africom to make sure Africans fear the US.
This is the adversary. The US wants Africans living in fear and China wants Africans living in love. The whole geopolitics today is around the axis: the US destroys and China builds. The US expands its military existence around the world and China builds ports, hospitals, schools, roads, and railways through BRI. The US wages or incites wars to spread fear and China promotes peace and economic development to spread love. China wants an international relationship of mutual respect and the US wants an international relationship of all fear the US.
China promotes peace and love which is the adversary to the US’ wars and fear.

问题：美国为什么要把中国视为地缘政治对手？
回答：这是由于基督教文化。基督徒敬拜上帝，而上帝是战士。箴言9:10说："敬畏耶和华是智慧的开端，认识至圣者便是聪明"。这就是西方的治理理念。尼可罗·马基亚维利的《君主论》是一部经典的政治哲学著作。该书至今仍是政治学专业学生的必读书。尼可罗·马基亚维利说，如果你想统治，你就必须让人畏惧。美国视中国为对手，是因为中国不畏惧美国。这打破了西方世界秩序的基础，因为世界秩序是建立在畏惧之上的。美国在广岛和长崎投下原子弹后，认为全世界都应该害怕美国。然而，毛泽东却嗤之以鼻，说原子弹是纸老虎。
长期以来，中国一直主张与美国建立相互尊重的关系，而美国从不接受相互尊重的理念。美国认为自己是世界领袖，世界领袖就应该让人畏惧。美国幻想中国应该害怕美国。这就是基于规则的秩序。中国的政治文化是儒家思想，即统治者应该受到爱戴。这种思想正是尼可罗·马基亚维利所质疑的。马基雅维利说，统治者不能通过被爱戴来统治。
幸福的生活是什么样的？是每天生活在恐惧中，还是生活在友爱中？你更喜欢哪种统治者？是你害怕的统治者，还是你爱戴的统治者？如果你读过《圣经》，你会发现基督教理想的上帝治理模式就是服从和畏惧上帝。2006 年，48 个非洲国家的领导人齐聚北京，参加中非峰会。作为回应，美国于 2007 年成立了非洲司令部。几个世纪以来，非洲一直生活在西方列强的恐惧之下，现在终于有了一个愿意爱他们的大国。这不是西方列强基于规则的秩序。基于规则的秩序是建立在恐惧之上的，而美国建立非洲司令部就是为了确保非洲人害怕美国。
这就是相对。美国希望非洲人生活在恐惧中，而中国希望非洲人生活在友爱中。当今整个地缘政治都围绕着这一轴心：美国搞破坏，中国搞建设。美国在世界各地扩张军事存在，而中国则通过一带一路建设港口、医院、学校、公路和铁路。美国发动或煽动战争以传播恐惧，中国促进和平与经济发展以传播友爱。中国希望建立一种相互尊重的国际关系，而美国则希望建立一种人人都害怕美国的国际关系。
中国提倡和平与友爱，与美国的战争和恐惧相对立。

xerotul
This is such an incoherent reply.
> Chinese political culture is a Confucian idea that rulers should be loved.
This person doesn't know anything about Rujia (Confucianism). This is Mengzi 孟子: 民为贵，社稷次之，君为轻 the people are significant, followed by the state, the ruler is insignificant
Does that sound like love the rulers? NO! Monarchs hated Confucius. Confucius advocated for meritocracy which went against inhered dynastic power and nepotism.
> Why does the United States want to consider China as a geopolitical adversary?
Look at books such as "The End of History and the Last Man" by Francis Fukuyama, "The Grand Chessboard" by Zbigniew Brzezinski, or writings from Washington-based think tanks, the common theme is that the United States is the world's superpower and no country should emerge to challenge the hegemony of the United States.
Christianity, any religion, and superstition are just tools used by the ruling class to manipulate and control the people for their goals since ancient times.

这个回答真就语无伦次。
>“中国的政治文化是儒家思想，统治者应该受到爱戴”
这个人对儒学一无所知。孟子：民为贵，社稷次之，君为轻。这听起来像是爱戴统治者吗？不！君主们憎恨孔子。孔子提倡精英政治，这与固有的王朝权力和裙带关系背道而驰。
>“为什么美国要把中国视为地缘政治对手?”
无论是福山的《历史的终结及最后之人》、布热津斯基的《大棋盘》，还是华盛顿智库的著作，都在强调美国是世界超级大国，任何国家都不应该挑战美国的霸权地位。
基督教，任何宗教和迷信都只是统治阶级为了达到自己的目的而操纵和控制人民的工具。

Agnosticpagan -> xerotul
It is a gross misreading of Machiavelli also. His two major works were The Prince and The Discourses on Livy, both published posthumously. The latter is the greater, and I argue, the more important work. Machiavelli was a republican - in the original Roman sense focused more on custom than constitutions. In both works, he states the preference that rulers should use benevolence, but if that is not possible, then use fear as a last resort. In other words, incentives are preferred over disincentives.
The neglect of the The Discourses on Livy does highlight how most Westerners view governance as a necessary evil that needs to be limited, rather than the collective power of the community to create something good. This is partly shaped by Judeo-Christian concepts like 'original sin' and that humans need divine salvation, and so secular government is seen as inferior to theocratic government. (Remember, it is the Kingdom of God. No democrats in their celestial realm.)

这也是对马基雅维利的严重误读。他的两部主要作品是《君主论》和《论李维》，都是在死后出版的。后一本更伟大，我认为也更重要。马基雅维利是一个共和主义者——在最初的罗马意义上，他更注重习俗而非宪法。在这两部著作中，他都指出统治者应该仁治，但如果无法做到，那么就把恐惧作为最后的手段。换句话说，激励优于抑制。
对《论李维》的忽视，确实凸显了大多数西方人将治理视为需要加以限制的必要之恶，而不是社会创造美好事物的集体力量。这在一定程度上是受犹太教-基督教观念的影响，如 "原罪 "和人类需要神的救赎，因此世俗政府被视为不如神权政府。(记住，这里是神的国度，在他们的天国里没有民主派）。

BvttH0leSurfer
I believe Parenti said something like: "US endless war demands seeing a world of enemies, just as Rome did, just as Hitler did. If you can't find an enemy, no problem, just invent one."

我相信帕兰提说过类似的话 "美国无休止的战争要求看到一个充满敌人的世界，就像罗马和希特勒那样。如果你找不到敌人，没关系，那就自己造一个"。

kz8816
China is the only country in the world right now that is positioned to compete with the US. This is why the Americans have declared war on the Chinese.
When you add that to the white man's obsession for domination and greed, there is nothing that they will not do to achieve their goals. Lying and ruining innocent lives is not an issue for them. They have no moral values and recent events have shown how hypocritical they are wrt to democracy, free speech and racism.

中国是目前世界上唯一有能力与美国竞争的国家。这就是美国人向中国人宣战的原因。
再加上白人对统治和贪婪的痴迷，为了达到目的，他们无所不用其极。对他们来说，撒谎和毁掉无辜的生命不是问题。他们没有道德价值观，最近发生的事件表明，他们在民主、言论自由和种族主义方面有多么虚伪。

trowaway29428
Tulsa Massacre - when non-whites do better than them they get all pissy and homicidal

塔尔萨大屠杀——当非白人做得比他们好时，他们就会变得暴躁，大开杀戒

Castlor
I'm American, and although Christian culture is pervasive in America, it's a culture that is only tangentially connected to the Bible, and contains many different sects. Some sects are explicitly hierarchical, and others are focused on individual relationships with God, many of which have de-emphasized the fear that Xiaoming Guo references here. The Bible is a book that is largely cherry-picked in order to support and emphasize each sect's core beliefs, and few Christians actually read it entirely. Likewise, few Americans have read more than a couple excerpts of Machiavelli's The Prince. These works have shaped the culture, but (in my opinion) not to the degree by which capitalism has shaped the culture.
Most Americans believe that China is a repressive totalitarian dictatorship, and working under that assumption, they conclude that any messaging from China claiming to be in favor of peace and cooperation is insincere. I would attribute this to messaging from American politicians and media, rather than Christianity or actual political philosophy (though American Christianity is anything but apolitical). American media coverage of China is always focused on presenting China this way, and most Americans don't really have the time or feel the need to critically investigate that narrative. The only place where they're likely to find information countering this narrative is in online socialist communities, and even those communities often believe that the CPC is totalitarian, and does not serve the Chinese people.
I don't think this misinformation is spurred by American politicians and media believing in Christianity; it seems more likely that they are beholden to the capital that funds them, and therefore they adopt messaging that coincides with the interests of American capitalists. Despite America's extensive trade with China, American capitalists view China as an adversary because any rise in Chinese power tends to come at the cost of American power. Even if China's approach to foreign policy is entirely cooperative, that cooperation erodes the grip of American capital and hegemony. America doesn't want to be cooperative because cooperation is not how their power was acquired, and it is not compatible with how their power is maintained. This is why the USA focuses more on military spending than foreign or domestic economic development.
Culture is a flexible thing that slowly changes to reinforce the current organization of political and economic power. Christianity and The Prince existed long before anti-China rhetoric in America. The reason it appears now and during the Red Scare is because China's position as a competing economic power that is not subservient to western capital makes it innately a threat. The only way China would not be considered a threat is if western capitalists owned large portions of its economy.

我是美国人，虽然基督教文化在美国无处不在，但这种文化与《圣经》的联系微乎其微，而且包含许多不同的教派。有些教派有明确的等级制度，有些教派则注重个人与上帝的关系，其中许多教派已经不再强调楼主在这里提到的恐惧。为了支持和强调每个教派的核心信仰，《圣经》这本书基本上是被挑拣过的，很少有基督徒真正完整地阅读过这本书。同样，很少有美国人读过马基雅维利的《君主论》，只读过几段节选。这些作品塑造了文化，但（在我看来）还没有达到资本主义塑造文化的程度。
大多数美国人认为中国是一个专制的极权独裁国家，在这种假设下，他们得出的结论是，中国声称支持和平与合作的任何信息都是不真诚的。我认为这是美国政客和媒体传递的信息造成的，而不是基督教或实际的政治哲学造成的（尽管美国的基督教绝非与政治无关）。美国媒体对中国的报道总是集中在以这种方式介绍中国，而大多数美国人并没有时间或觉得有必要对这种说法进行批判性的调查。他们唯一可能找到反驳这种说法的信息来源是网上的社会主义社区，而即使是这些社区也常常认为中共是极权主义的，不为中国人民服务。
我不认为这种错误信息是由信奉基督教的美国政客和媒体引发的；更有可能的是，他们对资助他们的资本唯命是从，因此他们采用的信息与美国资本家的利益不谋而合。尽管美国与中国有着广泛的贸易往来，但美国资本家仍将中国视为对手，因为中国实力的任何上升往往都会以美国实力为代价。即使中国的外交政策完全是合作性的，这种合作也会削弱美国资本和霸权的控制力。美国不想合作，因为合作不是他们获得权力的方式，也不符合他们维持权力的方式。这就是为什么美国更注重军费开支，而不是国内外经济发展。
文化是一种灵活的东西，它会慢慢改变，以加强当前的政治和经济权力组织。在美国出现反华言论之前，基督教和《君主论》早已存在。"红色恐慌"时期和现在之所以出现这种反华言论，是因为中国作为一个不屈服于西方资本的竞争性经济大国，其地位使它天然具有威胁性。只有当西方资本家拥有中国经济的大部分时，中国才不会被视为威胁。