[2023-10-15]Reddit评论区：三体1还不错，但三部曲是难以置信的好

Background_Space3668
Just to encourage anyone struggling with the first book maybe thinking "alright I guess this is cool but why is it hyped so much?". I get it. The first book is odd, but ultimately fine. The last 50 pages are super cool but there's a huge slog in the middle, at least for me.
The second and third however, are maybe the best sci-fi I've ever read. The ideas are incredible and so interesting. One of those books where after finishing I just sat in my chair for half an hour and continued to think about it, doing nothing.
Also each time they introduced an idea and I thought "hm ok but what about X?" thinking I'd found a plothole, usually a page or two later he would write "As for X,..." it's crazy good.
Also, not spoiling anything I think, but just to whet your appetite, the proposed solution to the Fermi paradox is....I mean. It makes sense and is laid out so simply. I'll leave it at that.
Bite the bullet, read the trilogy if you like sci-fi.

只是为了鼓励那些对第一部感到纠结的人，也许会想：“好吧，我觉得这很酷，但是为什么它被炒得这么热？”我可以理解。第一部是很奇怪，但结尾还是不错的。最后的50页非常酷，但是中间的部分挺费劲，至少对我来说是这样。
然而，第二部和第三部可能是我读过的最好的科幻小说。这些点子让人难以置信，非常有趣。其中一本我读完之后，我只是坐在椅子上半个小时，继续思考，什么也不做。
此外，每次他们拿出一个点子时，我都会想：“呃，好吧，但是 X 呢？”我还以为我发现了一个情节漏洞，通常一两页之后，他就会写道：“至于 X，......”这简直太棒了。还有，我不是想剧透什么，只是为了吊起你的胃口，费米悖论的解决方案是... 我认为这很有道理，而且简单明了。我就不多说了。如果你喜欢科幻小说，就咬咬牙读完三部曲吧。

jotomatoes -> Background_Space3668
Ahh thank you, seems like for various reasons gettting through book one is a bit of a challange but it sounds like the pay off is worth the journey.
I personally love science fiction genere, especially ones that tackle big idea themes. And since several people have mentioned and recommened this series to me, I might just power through the first part and see how I'm feeling about The Dark Forest.

啊，谢谢你，看来由于种种原因，读完第一部是个不小的挑战，但听起来付出是值得的。
我个人非常喜欢科幻小说，尤其是那些探讨大主题的科幻小说。既然有几个人向我提到并推荐过这个系列，我可能会先看完第一部，然后再看看我对《黑暗森林》的感觉如何。

jaydfox -> Background_Space3668
3 body was cool but the 2nd book The Dark Forest is the best one.
I've read and re-read the fist book, and I've read and partially re-read the second book. Once I finish re-reading the second book, I plan to read the third (already bought a copy). I'm having a hard time picturing where the series goes from here, but that comment is quite the recommendation, lol!

三体很酷，但第二部《黑暗森林》是最好的一部。
我已经读完并重读了第一部，第二部我也读完并部分重读了。重读完第二部，我打算读第三部（已经买了一本）。 我很难想象这个系列以后会怎么发展，但这个评论很有说服力，哈哈！

thepotplant
It is the single most grindingly depressing and bleak book I have ever read.

这是我读过的最压抑、最凄凉的一本书。

davtruss -> thepotplant
During the pandemic, I read several dozen books of different series about the Roman Legions, and scouts, and reconnaissance, and such, and one thing that jumped out at me in connection with the 3 body trilogy is that you can't build a fire for warmth, or hot food, or light, if somebody who sees the fire is determined to do you harm.

在疫情期间，我读了几十本关于罗马军团、侦察军、侦察等等的不同系列的书，而突然浮现在我脑海与《三体》三部曲有关的一件事是，你不能生火取暖、吃熟食或者照明，如果有人看到火光就会伤害你。

SimbaOnSteroids -> davtruss
The bleak part is that it makes a lot of sense for our universe to operate under the same principle, as it’s essentially just extending how terrestrial ecosystems work to the universe at large.

令人沮丧的是，我们的宇宙在同样的原则下运行是非常合理的，因为它本质上只是将陆地生态系统的运行方式延伸到了整个宇宙。

SimbaOnSteroids -> SimbaOnSteroids
My favorite solution to the Fermi Paradox is that there is no paradox.
Because otherwise Dark Forest or some other filter is ahead of us.

我最喜欢的费米悖论解决方案是“根本不存在悖论”。
否则，"黑暗森林 "或其他过滤器就会出现在我们面前。

ptownBlazers -> thepotplant
So bleak. Love it but bleak

太凄凉了。喜欢，但很凄凉

Rrraou -> thepotplant
It is the single most grindingly depressing and bleak book I have ever read.
And I loved it.

这是我读过的最压抑、最凄凉的一本书。但我很喜欢。

Billofrights_boris
The Dark Forest is honestly THE best book I’ve ever read

老实说，《黑暗森林》是我读过的最好的书

ComfyPillowThief -> Billofrights_boris
I don't know if those books are "the best books" for me, I tend to agree with people saying those book are build around ideas and not around good storytelling. But those ideas...all those ideas are making the books instant science fiction classics for me. I can't imagine those books not becoming reference material for sci-fi literature and movies for many years to come. You could create many universes full of rich and interesting lore build around those ideas and concepts.

我不知道三体对我来说是否是“最好的书”，我倾向于同意人们所说的三体是围绕着点子建立的，而不是围绕着好的故事。但是这些点子... 所有这些点子让三体立刻成为我的科幻经典。我可以想象三体在未来的许多年里会成为科幻文学和电影的参考资料。你可以围绕这些点子和概念创造许多充满丰富而有趣的知识的宇宙。

QueensOfTheBronzeAge -> ComfyPillowThief
My main problem with The Three Body Problem is that the characters felt less like people and more like arbitrary tools to drive the plot forward.
A prime example is when the main character, Wang, is meeting with Ding Yi, the husband of a recently deceased character, Yang Dong. Ding asks if the Wang can just randomly visit his mother-in-law to check on her, because she is probably upset with the death of her daughter. Then the main character just does it, no questions asked, resulting in the plot moving forward.
Does the rest of the trilogy get better about this? Because stuff like that really took me out of it. The plot is so cool, but the characters just don’t feel like people.

三体给我的主要问题是，角色感觉不像人，更像是推动情节发展的随意使用的工具。
一个典型的例子是，主人公汪淼在与刚去世的杨东的丈夫丁仪见面。丁仪问汪淼是否可以随便去看望一下他的岳母，因为她可能正在为女儿的死而难过。然后，男主角就这样做了，没有问任何问题，结果剧情就向前推进了。
三部曲的其他部在这方面会有所改进吗？因为这样的情况真的让我不舒服。情节太酷了，但角色感觉不像人。

roof_pizza -> QueensOfTheBronzeAge
Yeah, this is quite the opposite of what it sounds like you enjoy. The scientific concepts are center stage, and the characters are just vehicles to connect the plot to the science. (They're GREAT books and I loved them despite this, but if you can't put aside the fact that the characters are literally paper cut-outs, you might not enjoy)

是的，这和你喜欢的听起来恰恰相反。科学概念是中心，人物只是连接情节和科学的载体。(尽管如此，这两本书还是很棒，我很喜欢，但如果你不能抛开书中的人物都是剪纸这一事实，你可能就不会喜欢）。

elfin_makenzie
The strategy-philosophy of Dark Forest was so absolutely unique

黑暗森林的战略哲学绝对独一无二

grgext -> elfin_makenzie
Changed my perspective on the universe for sure, probably in my list for top 10 books of all time.
I try to get my friends to read it, but with the caveat they need to read the first book for it to make sense.

这本书无疑改变了我对宇宙的看法，可能是我心目中的十大好书之一。
我试着让我的朋友们读这本书，但前提是他们必须读过第一本书才能理解。

jaydfox -> elfin_makenzie
After about the first third of the book, the story got seriously depressing. Like, existential dread and betrayal depressing.
I absolutely loved the book.

大约读了前三分之一，故事就变得非常压抑。 比如，生存的恐惧和背叛的压抑。
我非常喜欢这本书。

Drop_Release -> jaydfox
Jesus christ yes - was absolutely blown away by Three Body Problem, and then the rest of the trilogy was even wilder
I must say Dark Forrest and Three Body Problem really made me rethink how I view quite a few scifi tropes and the wishful work of the SETI program

完全如此，三体让我彻底大开眼界了，三部曲的其余部分就更狂野了。
我必须说，《黑暗森林》和《三体》确实让我重新思考了我对许多科幻小说的看法，以及搜寻地外文明计划的一厢情愿。

TheTallGuy0 -> Drop_Release
These books broke my brain a dozen times or more. I audibly gasped and put that thing down for a beat or three. It's amazing stuff, so creative and terrifying.

这几本书让我的大脑崩溃了十几次，甚至更多。我倒抽一口气，把书放下了两三次。太棒的书了，既富有创意又让人恐惧。

aChristery -> TheTallGuy0
The ending is soooo fucking good. It only gets better and better honestly.

结局太他妈棒了。说实话，情节只会越来越精彩。

simlee92
Dark Forest is an absolute masterpiece. The bit where the droplet destroyed the entire fleet blew my mind.

黑暗森林绝对是一部杰作。水滴摧毁整个舰队的那一段让我震惊了。

wildlyinaccurate -> simlee92
I thought all of the alien weaponry was incredibly well thought-out. It gave me a very clear sense that we were just children holding a candle in the night, with absolutely no idea of what we would run into until we were right up against it.

我觉得所有的外星武器都是经过深思熟虑的。它给了我一种清晰的感觉，我们只是在黑夜里拿着蜡烛的孩子，在我们面对它之前，完全不知道我们会遇到什么。

CommunityPristine200 -> simlee92
Such an excellent example of truly alien weaponry. A lot of alien weaponry in other fiction is just an even bigger and fancier gun or explosion, but the series really hits that truly unexpected and alien angle of weaponry. Especially the weapon of the third book....

这才是真正外星武器的绝佳范例。在其他小说中，很多外星武器只是一种更大、更炫的枪支或爆炸装置，但这一系列真的从意想不到的角度展现了外星武器。尤其是第三部的武器....

r-selectors -> CommunityPristine200
I will say that even though I suspect a lot of the trilogy's writing is lost in translation...
The ideas are fascinating and the weaponry in the third book is nuts.

我想说的是，尽管我怀疑这三部曲中的许多文字在翻译过程中丢失了......
第三部中的点子很吸引人，武器装备也很疯狂。

Cersad -> r-selectors
Death's End alien weaponry felt more like a fever dream.
A terrifying nightmarish fever dream.
When I finished Dark Forest, I thought Cixin Liu had a grim take on human nature. Death's End it left me with an impression that Cixin Liu had a grim take on the nature of any potential intelligent society.

死神永生的外星武器更像是一场狂热之梦。
一场可怕的噩梦般的狂热之梦。
当我读完《黑暗森林》时，我认为刘慈欣对人性有一种冷酷的看法。《死神永生》给我留下的印象是，刘慈欣对任何潜在智慧社会的本质都有一种冷酷的看法。

DarwinZDF42 -> Cersad
It's been a while but we're talking about the dimension-reducing stuff, right? Bc that stuff was bonkers and melted my brain.

虽然读完已经有一段时间了，但我们说的是“降维打击”那部分吧？那东西太疯狂了，把我的脑子都融化了。

Cersad -> DarwinZDF42
Yeah, exactly that stuff. It was wild.

是的，就是那些东西。太疯狂了。

kayriss -> Cersad
I need a dual vector foil. For cleansing.

我需要一片二向箔。用于清洁。

Drop_Release -> kayriss
Jesus the weapon of the third book is out of this world insane - really made me wonder if that would be possible one day

卧槽，第三部中的武器超脱了这个世界疯了，真让我想知道是否有一天会成为可能

hippydipster -> Drop_Release
I like to think that level of messing with the fabric of reality is not possible. Something about just changing the rules of universe really doesn't sit right with me.

我认为不可能有这种程度的破坏现实结构的行为。 随便改变宇宙规则的做法让我很不舒服。

Drop_Release -> hippydipster
Yeh or at least if that is achieved in real life could set off a chain reaction that destroys everything in existence

是啊，至少如果在现实生活中实现了这一点，可能会引发连锁反应，摧毁现存的一切东西。

ArcHammer16 -> Drop_Release
It's been a while since I read it, but I think I remember that this was implied - there's no stopping that process once it stays, and it's feasible as a weapon only because the vastness of space means it would be an unfathomably long time before it affects you.

我读完这本书已经有一段时间了，但我记得书中有这样的暗示：这个过程一旦开始，就无法停止，而它之所以可以作为武器，只是因为浩瀚的太空意味着，它要经过一段漫长的时间才能影响到你。

nmezib -> ArcHammer16
Yes indeed. It was implied that the universe is 3 or 4 dimensions now, but started off with many higher dimensions at the beginning. The loss of dimensions were a result of billions of years of using dimension-reducing weapons over time by many advanced civilizations and it may only be a matter of time until we're down to 2 or 1.

的确如此。里面暗示着宇宙现在是 3 维或 4 维，但一开始却有很多更高的维度。维度的消失是数十亿年来许多先进文明使用降维武器的结果，而我们降到 2 维或 1 维可能只是时间问题。

ActivateGuacamole -> nmezib
i loved the idea that reducing it to 0 dimensions would cram the universe into a singularity, just like what started the big bang, and that the universe would then be reborn with full dimensionality

我喜欢这样的想法：把维度降为 0，就能把宇宙塞进一个奇点，就像大爆炸开始的时候一样，然后宇宙就会以完整的维度重生。

a_green_leaf
Now honestly, I think the “dark forest theory” is actually a very good and compelling idea, and I would guess that in 50 years it is just as much a part of generic science fiction lore as Asimov’s laws of robotics.
It is just that everybody act so ridiculously stupid. Not one, but two or three people have plans to save hunanity, but then they doubt they will work and put all their effort into sabotaging them, to guarantee they dont work. WTF?

老实说，我认为 "黑暗森林理论 "实际上是一个非常好且令人信服的想法，我猜 50 年后它会像阿西莫夫的机器人定律一样，成为普通科幻小说的一部分。
只是每个人都蠢得可笑。不是一个人，而是两三个人制定了拯救人类的计划，但他们又怀疑这些计划是否可行，于是倾尽全力进行破坏，以确保这些计划不会成功。 什么鬼？

santagoo -> a_green_leaf
I mean, look at what (some of us) did with the vaccine drive to fight COVID...

我的意思是，看看（我们中的）一些人在疫苗运动中做了什么来对抗新冠疫情的...

Flat_News_2000 -> a_green_leaf
But the visual of all the ships taking off from Earth was very inspiring!

但是，所有飞船从地球起飞的景象非常鼓舞人心！

lxkrycek
Actually, I read the first book and while I enjoyed it, somehow, few days later I did not have anything telling me "hey, what's next ? I need to know what's happening after !".
Here's where it failed IMO for me, there was nothing really urging me to find out.
Thanks OP, I'll thus keep that in mind when I'll fall short of SF to read in few months.

实际上，我读了第一部，虽然我很喜欢，但是几天后，我没有这种念头“嘿，下一部是什么？我需要知道之后会发生什么！”
对我来说，这就是失败的地方，没有什么真正促使我去寻找答案。
谢谢题主，当我在几个月内没有科幻小说可读的时候，我会记住的。

wildlyinaccurate -> lxkrycek
I felt the same way as you after the first book, but I'm somewhat of a completionist so I forced myself to start reading the second book. I hardly put that book down, and I read the third book just as quickly. That was 5 or 6 years ago and I still think about that trilogy more than any other series I've read. It is, in my opinion, some of the best speculative sci-fi out there.

读完第一本后，我和你有同样的感觉，但我是个完本主义者，所以我强迫自己开始读第二本。我几乎就没放下第二本，第三本也读得很快。那是五六年前的事了，现在我想起这三部曲的次数仍然比我读过的任何其他系列小说都多。在我看来，它是最好的科幻推理小说之一。

Bazlow -> wildlyinaccurate
Agreed with this. I went in on Kindle recommendation and nothing else, and enjoyed book 1, but LOVED 2. 3 was good too, but as a trilogy, it's one of my favourite pieces of sci-fi I've ever read.

同意。我只是根据 Kindle 的推荐去看的，没有别的原因，我喜欢第 1 本，但更喜欢第 2 本。 第 3 本也不错，但作为三部曲，它是我读过的最喜欢的科幻小说之一。

barryhakker -> lxkrycek
You could finish after both book one and book two and be totally fine. All three are worth it though.

你可以在第一本和第二本之后结束，完全没问题。不过这三本都值得一读。

Moinder -> barryhakker
I finished with two and thats good an ending for me.

我读了两本就结束了，这对我来说是个很好的结局。

John23P
Totally agree with this. Valid criticisms for the characters but at the same time it’s clearly an idea driven book (similar to a lot of Asimov and Dick) and I find it blatantly so that i get a bit inpatient with people slamming it for being that. You don’t hear people slamming Leguin for lack of thick and intricate plot do you?
Some of the moments in the 2nd and 3rd book are such great examples of hopelessness and humanity’s struggle with dealing with the masses in its situation. Times I’d put the book down just feeling hollow at how weak Earth is to other civilisations.

完全同意。对角色的批评是有道理的，但同时它显然是一本创意驱动型的书（类似于阿西莫夫和迪克的很多作品），我觉得这是很明显的，以至于我对抨击这点的人有些不耐烦了。你不会听到有人抨击勒古恩的书缺乏厚重而复杂的情节吧？
第二和第三部中的一些片段很好地诠释了绝望和人类在与处境中的群众打交道时的斗争。有些时候，我会因空虚而放下书，在其他文明面前，地球是多么的脆弱。

slothtrop6 -> John23P
I think the fact that they're idea-driven rather than character-driven is a plus and something I've come to expect from hard sci-fi (or close to it). I have to imagine that critics aren't particularly tied to or familiar with that genre and came across the book owing to it's huge popularity. A case of mismatched expectations and/or taste.

我认为，三体是思想驱动而不是角色驱动的，这是个加分项，也是我对硬科幻（或偏硬科幻）作品的期待。我不得不想象，评论家们并不是特别喜欢或熟悉这种类型，而是因为这本书大受欢迎才接触到它的。这是一种期望和/或品味不匹配的情况。

RYouNotEntertained -> slothtrop6
idea-driven rather than character-driven
Don't see why there has to be a trade off. Good sci fi typically has both.

“思想驱动而不是角色驱动”
我不明白为什么一定要有所取舍。好的科幻作品通常两者兼备。

slothtrop6 -> RYouNotEntertained
You can, but it's zero sum in terms of % content allocated to each. If I don't care that much about character development for this type of story, I don't see it as a compromise.

你可以这样做，但就分配给每个人的内容百分比而言，这是零和。如果我不太在意这类故事中的角色发展，我就不认为这是一种妥协。

IntroductionSea1181
The Dark Forest theory still gives me chills

黑暗森林理论仍让我不寒而栗

SZRobert
Best hard sci-fi I’ve ever encountered. I read it twice. Listened more than once. It’s brilliant. So many highlights. If you find someone else who’s read it, you can talk about it for hours. And every time you reread it, you discover and understand something new.
Downside: it might ruin you for any other hard science fiction.

我读过的最好的硬科幻小说。我读了两遍。听了不止一遍。太精彩了。亮点太多了。如果你找到其他读过这本书的人，你可以聊上几个小时。每次重读，都会有新的发现和理解。
缺点：它可能会毁了你对其他硬科幻小说的兴趣。

Background_Space3668 -> ShenzhenRobert
Really want to re-read it all now but I'm going to wait a few months I think. I just finished another short sci-fi and it felt completely....juvenile? compared to this. You're right about that last part unfortunately.

我现在真的很想重读一遍，但我想还是等几个月再说吧。我刚刚读完另一部科幻短篇小说，相比之下，感觉非常....幼稚？不幸的是，你最后说的那句是对的。