[2023-07-25]Reddit评论区：我在网上读到各种军事装备，一个想法突然浮现在我的脑海里，“为什么我们印度人在实际工程方面这么糟糕？”

Purple_Alakazam
We still haven't been able to produce a good Indian tank. Arjun tanks were a huge failure. Same with rifles, Indian army mainly uses Russian AKs.
We have very few self propelled artillery, all of it bought from South Korea or Russia. We haven't been able to produce even that.
Same with aircraft. There are no Indian aerospace companies in India except HAL which cannot produce commercial planes. HAL Tejas is basically a light fighter/bomber, not like Chinese J classes or American F classes. We can't even produce good drones, Rustom class drones aren't even military capable yet after two decades. Indian VSTOL aircraft doesn't even seem a possibility.
There are no Indian companies that can even produce semiconductor chips for even a game controller, forget about chips for supercomputers.
All of the heavy construction equipment like cranes, I have seen, are always a hyundai or Mitsubishi (Japanese companies). Even the statue of Unity was partially built and designed by Chinese construction companies.
Why we are so bad at engineering? Are all of our institutions so useless?
China, our main enemy is so far ahead of us, producing thier own aircraft, tanks, artillery, drones and rifles....

（题主）我们还没能制造出一款优秀的印度坦克。阿琼坦克是一个巨大的失败。步枪也一样，印度军队主要使用俄制AK步枪。
我们的自行火炮很少，都是从韩国或俄罗斯买的。我们甚至连这个都没能生产出来。
飞机也一样。在印度，除了不能生产商用飞机的HAL公司外，没有任何印度的航空航天公司。HAL的光辉战机基本上是一种轻型战斗机/轰炸机，不像中国的J级或美国的F级。我们甚至不能生产优秀的无人机，Rustom级无人机在20年后甚至还不具备军用能力。印度的垂直起降飞机似乎都不可能。
印度没有一家公司能够生产半导体芯片，甚至连游戏控制器的芯片都无法生产，更不用说超级计算机的芯片了。
我看过的所有重型建筑设备，比如起重机，总是现代或三菱（日本公司）的。就连团结雕像也有一部分是由中国建筑公司建造和设计的。
为什么我们这么不擅长工程技术？难道我们的机构都这么没用吗？
中国，我们的劲敌，远远领先我们，他们生产自己的飞机、坦克、大炮、无人机和步枪.....

Good_Guarantee_8448
all of that requires a lot of money and persistant R&D efforts.
we spend most of that money somewhere else.
fix our internal issues and move ahead OR establish flagship industries with inhouse R&D/academics.
we are moving from 1>>2, rather trying to balance both.
we should look for what it took for them to get there.
copy the efforts, dont cry for results.
even in IT, most are confined to using frameworks or work for others.
there is minimal involvement in core technologies development from india.

所有这些都需要大量的资金和不懈的研发努力。
我们大部分的钱都花在别的地方了。
解决我们的内部问题并向前迈进，或者建立拥有内部研发/学术机构的旗舰产业。
我们正在从1>>2移动，而不是试图平衡两者。
我们应该看看他们付出了什么才做到的。
模仿这种努力，不要为结果哭泣。
即使在 IT 领域，大多数也只限于使用框架或为他人工作。
印度对核心技术开发的参与程度很低。

Beautiful_Lack_8740 -> Good_Guarantee_8448
I disagree with the IT thing . I work for amazn and a lot of core R& D(of) is happening in India. Infact my friend who works at google is saying the tensor(google processor) design is mainly happening in India and in US . The thing is no capable people ll work for less money. If amazon pay you why would a good talent will work for tcs ?

我不同意关于 IT 的说法。我在亚马逊工作，很多核心的研发工作都在印度进行。事实上，我在谷歌工作的朋友说Tensor(谷歌处理器)的设计工作主要是在印度和美国。问题是有能力的人不会为更少的钱工作。如果亚马逊聘请你，为什么一个优秀的人才会为塔塔咨询服务公司(TCS)工作？

TheLongMan69
No R&D

没有研发

karen778 -> TheLongMan69
Main problem is weak economy, R&D in defence gives little return compared to othrrr sectors

主要问题是经济疲软，与其他部门相比，国防研发的回报率很低

TheLongMan69
Actually china barely makes something of there own if you look closely most of there items are reverse engineered mostly stolen data from US DoD.

实际上，如果你仔细观察的话，中国几乎没有自己的东西，大部分东西都是逆向工程得来的，大部分数据是从美国国防部窃取来的。

Purple_Alakazam -> TheLongMan69
But we can't even do that well.
Arjun tanks were partially based on Leopard 2s and was still bad.

（题主）但我们连这都做不好啊。
阿琼坦克部分是基于豹2，但仍然很糟糕。

TheLongMan69 -> Purple_Alakazam
India never really did reverse engineering india only went for technology transfer and collabs with other countries

印度从来没有真正做过逆向工程，印度只追求技术转让和与其他国家的合作

desitelugu -> TheLongMan69
are you sure about it ? First Indian atomic bomb was reverse engineered from Canada provided Nuclear Reactor for civilian purpose. Its just that we don't see that zeal to do this kind of stuff

你确定吗？印度第一颗原子弹就是由加拿大提供的民用核反应堆逆向工程制造出来的。只是我们没有看到做这类事情的热情。

Only-Decent -> desitelugu
you can't reverse engineer an atomic bomb from a reactor. It was just the nuclear fuel was from Canada reactor which we were supposed to use for civilian purpose only.

你不可能从反应堆中逆向工程出原子弹。只是核燃料来自我们本该只用于民用目的加拿大的反应堆。

Only-Decent -> TheLongMan69
India never really did reverse engineering
C'mon.. how can you explain so much similarity between Indian SLR and Belgian FN-FAL?
If you don't reverse engineer, you don't engineer..

“印度从来没有真正做过逆向工程”
得了吧... 你怎么解释印度 SLR 步枪和比利时 FN-FAL 步枪之间有这么多相似之处？
如果你不逆向工程，你就不会做工程...

coolcrank
All of what you have listed have a myriad of issues that caused the deficit of creating quality machinery. Engineering is the least weighted of the reasons for that. It's a mix of bureaucratic red tapes, corruption, defence forces constantly changing their requirements, change in political will and some others. Also, when a foreign system is acquired and India specific adjustments are asked to be made, that too takes up a lot of time from central research organisations. Also, semiconductor for space missions are made in house, some other chips too for various other indigenous uses.

你列出的所有点，都有无数个问题导致无法制造优质机器。工程方面是最不重要的原因。这是官僚主义的繁文缛节、腐败、国防部队不断改变的要求、政治意愿的变化以及其他一些因素的混合。还有，当购买了外国系统，并要求针对印度做出调整时，这也需要中央研究机构投入大量时间。此外，用于太空任务的半导体是自制的，其他一些芯片也用于各种其他本土用途。

other_e
R&D, what do you expect when we spend around a % on it. Nothing shit.

研发的问题，当我们在研发上花费1%的钱时，你还能指望什么呢。什么屁都没有。

nvbombsquad
We are a service based economy. We are slowly transitioning to manufacturing but it's too slow. And critical components are still imported and will continue to do so till we can ramp up our abilities. However seeing the condition of Indian education system, it's a bit difficult.

我们是一个以服务业为基础的经济体。我们正在缓慢地向制造业过渡，但速度太慢了。关键部件仍在继续进口，直到我们能够提高自己的能力。然而，从印度教育系统的状况来看，这有点困难。

DeathCape
I have been monitoring Indian Defence industry since 2012 so here is my answer to all of the questions you put above.
All of the points you mentioned are absolutely false or very ill researched
Arjun tank isnt failure infact it is one of the most advance and lethal tanks in world right now in its weight category.
Indian Army wanted an indigenous tank in 40 ton category with 105 mm gun so Arjun tank project was started but soon they realised that the world was moving away from 105mm cannon to 120/125mm cannon.Russia was introduced T-72 tank. France was working on Leclerc tank. America was introduced M1A1 Abrams. All these were using 120mm or 125mm gun. It is found when Arjun would be inducted in mid 1990s than 105mm gun will be absolute. So DRDO and Army were started redesign Arjun around 120mm gun. In this time another challenge was appear. Pakistan started evaluating M1A1 Abrams tank. It was certain that Pakistan would buy hundreds of such tank with USA military aids to fight against Russia in north. At that time USSR was entered into Afghanistan. So DRDO and Indian Army decided to build a heavy tank that can face M1 Abrams. So heavy weight Arjun tank was designed. But it's target Pakistani M1A1 Abrahams never purchased by Pakistan. Rather Pakistan was looking for medium weight tank. So Arjun tank lost it's necesity.

自2012年以来，我一直在关注印度国防工业，以下是我对你上面所有问题的回答。
你提到的所有观点都是绝对错误的，或者研究得很不充分。
阿琼坦克没有失败，事实上它是目前世界上最先进和最致命的坦克之一。
印度陆军希望有一种装备105毫米火炮的国产40吨级坦克，因此启动了 "阿琼 "坦克项目，但很快他们就意识到世界正在从105毫米火炮转向120/125毫米火炮。俄罗斯推出了T-72坦克。法国正在研制勒克莱尔坦克。美国推出了M1A1艾布拉姆斯坦克。所有这些都使用120毫米或125毫米火炮。
当阿琼坦克在90年代中期服役时，105毫米火炮将成为绝对主力。因此DRDO（印度国防研究及发展组织）和陆军开始围绕120毫米火炮重新设计阿琼。此时，另一个挑战出现了。巴基斯坦开始评估M1A1艾布拉姆斯坦克。可以肯定的是，巴基斯坦将在美国的军事援助下购买数百辆这样的坦克，以便对抗北部的俄罗斯势力。当时苏联已经进入阿富汗。因此，DRDO和印度陆军决定制造一种能够对抗M1艾布拉姆斯的重型坦克。于是重型阿琼坦克就被设计出来了。但它的目标是巴基斯坦从未购买过的M1A1亚伯拉罕坦克。相反，巴基斯坦正在寻找中型坦克。所以阿琼坦克失去了它的必要性。

But currently DRDO is developing a light tank called ZORAVAR whose prototype will be rolled by the end of the year.
You know which is the worlds longest range artillery gun, it is our ATAGS which has been developed by DRDO with a range of 48km. And in terms of artilleries we are self sufficient and has so many indigenous options like Dhanush, Bharat 52 by kalyani group and ATAGS.
We are in the process of developing self propelled artillery which you will see the rollout in coming months.
Once artillery gun is developed its not that hard to mount it on a vehicle to make it self propelled as we have all the technologies available.

（接上）但目前DRDO正在研制一种名为“佐拉瓦尔”的轻型坦克，其原型车将于今年年底下线。
你知道世界上射程最远的火炮是哪种吗，那就是我们的ATAGS榴弹炮，它由DRDO研发，射程48公里。在火炮方面，我们自给自足，有许多本土选择，如Dhanush、Kalyani集团的Bharat 52和ATAGS。（译者：2020年，印度推出ATAGS156毫米火炮，号称“是全世界同类火炮中射程最远的，是印度制造的骄傲”。同年9月试射的时候炸膛，掀飞了2个距离较远的专家，2个距离较近的专家直接灰飞烟灭。）
我们正在开发自推进火炮，在未来几个月内就会亮相。
一旦该火炮研制成功，将其安装在车辆上使其自行推进就不那么困难了，因为我们拥有所有可用的技术。

First of all Tejas is not a bomber its a full fledged fighter aircraft. There is a day and night difference between a fighter aircraft and a bomber.
And second coming to your point that its not good quality like chinese J series...you should be proud to know that its the best fighter aircraft in its category that is light weight category , chinese JF-17 and south koreas FA 50 does not even come close to the our Lca Tejas Mk1a variant. It has AESA radar(which is huge huge upgrade and there are only few countries which have technology to develop an AESA radar) which either of the above aircraft lacks, has better avionics , can fire all the BVR missiles in the world, it has better fly by wire controls, and is made up of composite material which is a huge thing.
Despite being one of the best in its category we should treat it as a technology demonstrator for our future fighter aircraft projects.

（接上）首先，光辉战机不是轰炸机，而是一种成熟的战斗机。其次，你说它的质量不如中国的J系列......你应该感到自豪的是，它是同类中最好的战斗机，中国的JF-17和韩国的FA 50甚至都比不上我们的Lca Tejas Mk1a改。它配备有源相控阵雷达（这是一个巨大的升级，只有少数几个国家拥有开发有源相控阵雷达的技术），这是上述飞机所缺乏的，它有更好的航空电子设备，可以发射世界上所有的BVR导弹，它有更好的线控飞行，由复合材料制成，这是一个巨大的进步。
尽管它是同类产品中的佼佼者，但我们应将其视为我们未来战斗机项目的技术示范。
（译者：2022年中国都把有源相控阵雷达民用化了，农民兄弟拿去监控野猪...）

For ex. Tejas Mk2 which will be a medium weight sngle engine aircraft and will be on par with Rafale in terms of technology and weapon options. Its currently under development and the prototype will be rolled out in 2024 and will join the production in 2027-28.
Then there is our 5th jen fighter aircraft called AMCA Mk1 which is also in prototype development stage and will be rolled out in 2025 and production will start in 2030-31.
There will be the next variant of AMCA called AMCA Mk2 which will be a 5.5 to 6th gen aircraft.
Then we are developing our naval fighter aircraft called TEDBF which will be rolled out in 2026-27.
And dont forget we are self reliant in Helicopters we have Dhruv Mk1,2,3,4 , Rudra and worlds heighest altitude flying helicopter LCA PRACHAND.
And lastly for passenger aircraft we have akready made NAL Saras and next year Saras Mk2 will take its first flight. It is smaller but we are surely progressing.
Drones: Tapas is quite capable drone in its category but it is not the only one. Infact there will be an armed version of Tapas. It comes with sattelite communication and automatic takeoff and landing which even Turkish Bayrakter lacks.
We are developing our own UCAV Ghatak whose miniature version named Swift has already taken its first flight.
Ghatak will be an armed drone with payload capacity of around 3500-4500kg with our own kaveri engine. It will come with all the modern technologies.

（接上）例如，光辉Mk2将是一种中型单引擎飞机，在技术和武器选择方面将与阵风相提并论。它目前正在开发中，原型机将于2024年推出，并于2027-28年投入生产。
然后是我们的第5代战斗机AMCA Mk1，它也处于原型开发阶段，将于2025年推出，并于2030-31年开始生产。
AMCA的下一个改型是AMCA Mk2，它将是5.5代到第6代飞机。
然后，我们正在开发海军战斗机TEDBF，将于2026年至2027年推出。
别忘了我们在直升机领域是自力更生的，我们有Dhruv Mk1、2、3、4、Rudra和世界上海拔飞得最高的直升机LCA PRACHAND。
最后，在客机方面，我们已经制造了NAL Saras，明年Saras Mk2将首次飞行。它更小，但我们肯定在进步。
无人机方面：Tapas在同类无人机中是相当有实力的，但它不是唯一一种。事实上，将会有一款武装版本的Tapas。它配备了卫星通信和自动起降功能，这是连土耳其的Bayrakter都没有的。
我们正在开发自己的无人作战飞机Ghatak，其迷你版“Swift”已经进行了首次飞行。
Ghatak将是一种武装无人机，载重量约为3500-4500公斤，使用我们自己的kaveri发动机。它将配备所有现代技术。

We are so good in missiles technology , we have our own aircraft carrier, we have our own nucleae attack ballistic missile submarines. We are building our own friggates, corvettes. Our ISRO is one of the most successful space agencies.
After looking at all this you cannot say that we are lacking in technologies..infact what i have mentioned above is things only 3 countries have done properly.
You are right on semiconductors but only a handfull of countries have that technology.
But we are doing our best to fill this gap too.
Its not that we dont have the capability but the lack of political will and support over the years of congress rule has hurt us.
Bur we cannot do everything at once but surely we will not be remain backwords in coming days.
For the time being take pride in what we accomplished and work harder for what we can accomplish.

（接上）我们在导弹技术方面非常出色，我们有自己的航母，我们有自己的核攻击弹道导弹潜艇。我们正在建造自己的护卫舰和轻型护卫舰。我们的ISRO是最成功的航天机构之一。综上所述，你不能说我们缺乏技术，事实上，我上面提到的东西只有3个国家做得很好。
你对半导体的看法是对的，但只有少数国家拥有这项技术。但我们也在尽最大努力填补这一空白。不是我们没有能力，而是多年来国大党统治下缺乏政治意愿和支持，这伤害了我们。不过，我们无法一下子做所有的事情，但我们肯定不会在未来的日子里一直落后。暂时，为我们所取得的成就感到自豪吧，并为我们所能取得的成就更加努力。

imik4991 -> DeathCape
But why are rifles failure? Why can't India make good rifles?

但是为什么步枪失败了？ 为什么印度不能制造好的步枪？

DeathCape -> imik4991
You can blame Indian Army and ordinance factory board for that. Conventionally indian army used 7.62 mm callibre bullets but they copied west and wanted a 5.56mm calibre gun, so DRDO made INSAS rifles with 5.56 mm bore. But the problem with that calibre is it does not have that much kill power, so it was not used later on. And Ordinance factory board had horrible track record they were not able to match the quality of the gun which DRDO gave them the technology of, so its barrel exploded due to bad metalurgy and could not passed the quality test.
But now some private companies have come us like SSS defence sysytems, they have made some good guns and I think they will finally get some order from Indian Army.

你可以责怪印度军队和军械工厂组织。传统上，印度军队使用7.62毫米口径的子弹，但他们模仿西方，想要5.56毫米口径的枪，所以DRDO制造了口径5.56毫米的INSAS步枪。但是这种口径的问题是，它没有那么大的杀伤力，所以后来就没有使用了。而且军械工厂组织有着糟糕的记录，他们无法制造与DRDO提供给他们的枪相符的质量，所以由于糟糕的冶金工艺，枪管发生爆炸，无法通过质量测试。
但现在已经有一些私人公司出现了，比如SSS防御系统，他们制造了一些很好的枪支，我认为他们最终会得到印度军队的一些订单。

Only-Decent -> DeathCape
DRDO made INSAS rifles with 5.56 mm bore
lol.. it was made by ARDE.. Curious, how many rounds have you fired with these weapons? any comparison with say, M16 vs INSAS?

“DRDO制造了口径5.56毫米的INSAS步枪”
哈哈... 这枪是由 ARDE 制造的... 好奇的是，你用这些武器打过多少发子弹？有没有比较过 M16 和 INSAS？

manek101 -> DeathCape
Arjun is most advanced tank?
Stop making excuses for poor R&D.
Tank isn't just about the gun in it, its mobility, endurance, defence and launch systems as well, where arjun mk1a is significantly behind M1a2 sep v3 and 4.
Tejas is a good plane but it has its disadvantages too, and if you're claiming it to be "the fighter jet" then comparing it just to other LCAs is disingenuous, DRDO is still many "expected dates" away from getting a proper 4.5 gen fighter and we are at an historic low number of fighter squadrons because of that, lowest since 1961.
China has many fighters a whole generation ahead of J17s.
Light conbat fighters can't become the backbone of an airforce
self reliant in Helicopters
India is at a comfortable spot in helicopters but we do still rely on imports because of shortcomings in our own machines, Like the apache deal from 2015 or Mh60 romeo from 2020
And drone? Same goes for drone, we say we have this and that but then go shopping for MQ9B.
Its good to take pride in what we have achieved, but we lack a LOT and its constructive criticism to point out bullshit when you see it.
Reality is PSUs are still heavily inefficient and the whole system needs a large political push for and even harder revamp.

阿琼是最先进的坦克？不要再为糟糕的研发找借口了。
坦克不仅仅是它的炮，还有它的机动性、耐久、防御和发射系统，这些阿尔琼 mk1a 明显落后于 M1a2 sep v3和v4。
光辉是一款好飞机，但它也有缺点，如果你声称它是“战斗机”，那么仅仅拿它与其他 LCA 战斗机相比是虚伪的，DRDO 距离获得一架合适的4.5代战斗机还有很多“预期日期”，因此我们的战斗机中队数量处于历史最低水平，是1961年以来最低的。
中国有很多比J17领先整整一代的战机。
轻型战斗机不能成为空军的中坚力量。
“在直升机领域，印度自力更生”
印度在直升机领域处于一个舒适的位置，但我们仍然依赖进口，因为我们自己的机器存在缺陷，比如2015年的阿帕奇交易或者2020年的Mh60罗密欧。
那无人机呢？无人机也一样，我们说我们有这有那，然后转头去买MQ9B。
为我们所取得的成就感到自豪是件好事，但是我们缺乏很多东西，也缺乏建设性的批评，当你看到胡说八道的时候，能够指出来。
现实情况是，公共服务部门仍然效率低下，整个系统需要巨大的政治推动，甚至需要更加艰难的改革。

Correct-Baseball5130 -> DeathCape
You sure mentioned a lot of these so called positive attributes of Indian engineering but how much of it are 'Pioneering Engineering' or 'First Mover Technology' that India has done alone without any external aid, be it the Russians or the Americans.
Say for example, Chandrayaan 1 Mission. It had a total of 8 science payloads. Five of these are external aid. Like UK, Germany, Sweden, Bulgaria and USA. Moon Mineralogy Mapper, the instrument responsible for detecting water on moon(which India took sole responsibility) was designed and developed at JPL, Pasadena, California, NASA. Because India didn't had the technical expertise( in line with OP's question) and the finances to make it indigenously.
ISRO doesn't even have the capacity to put 4 tonnes plus satellites into GTO, relies on the French and still wants the world to proclaim them as Global Space Power.
Another example, INS Vikrant with 45000 tonnes Displacement Capacity, which India proudly says has made it indigenously, took 15 years to make. While only the superstructure is locally made, most of the naval systems have been imported from foreign countries. What if these foreign countries decline to assist India in the future? What would be India's stance on that? China meanwhile, made its carrier, the Type 001A within 5 yrs with almost 70000 tonnes and high degree of localisation of it's naval systems.
I can provide you more but I don't want to write a novel.
Clearly, India lacks in Engineering to pioneer.

你当然提到了印度工程的许多所谓的积极属性，但是有多少是印度在没有任何外部援助（无论是俄罗斯人还是美国人）的情况下独自完成的“首创工程”或“先驱技术”。
比如说，月船1号任务。它总共有8个科学载荷。其中5个是外部援助。比如英国，德国，瑞典，保加利亚和美国。月球矿物绘图仪、负责探测月球上的水(印度全权负责)的仪器，是由NASA的加利福尼亚州帕萨迪纳市喷气推进实验室设计和开发的。因为印度没有技术专长(与题主的问题一致)，也没有本土化所需的资金。
印度航天局甚至没有能力将4吨多的卫星送入地球静止轨道，只能依赖法国，还希望世界宣称他们是全球太空大国。
另一个例子是排水量为45000吨的 “维克兰特”航母，印度自豪地称该舰为国内建造，耗时15年。虽然只有上层建筑是国内建造的，不过大多数海军系统都是从国外进口的。如果这些外国在未来拒绝援助印度怎么办？印度对此是什么立场？与此同时，中国在5年内建造了其接近7万吨的001A型航母，拥有高度本地化的海军系统。
我可以给你更多的信息，但我不想写成小说。
显然，印度缺乏工程方面的先驱者。

DeathCape -> Correct-Baseball5130
Despite the apathy from the previous goverment in Research and Development sector , we have achieved many things. But clearly you will not be able to see that because thats not your agenda here, you are here only to spread the propoganda against the Indian institutes.
It is clear from your comment that you are just a troll to not see what we have achieved despite the lack of budget , despite the plunders done by British and despite the efforts made by the previous goverments to make us just a mediocre country.
You are just a troll and nothing more.

尽管上届政府对研发漠不关心，但我们还是取得了很多成就。不过很明显，你看不到这些，因为这不是你的目的，你来这里只是为了传播反对印度研究所的宣传。
从你的评论中可以清楚地看出，你只是个喷子，看不到我们所取得的成就，尽管我们缺乏预算，尽管被英国掠夺，尽管前几届政府努力让我们成为一个平庸的国家。
你只是个喷子而已。

Correct-Baseball5130 -> DeathCape
You could have proved your point without disrespectful snipes like 'Troll'. Be that as it may. I wasn't disrespectful to you.. I just had a different opinion and emphasis on the subject matter than you. I would love to be educated if I'm wrong. But that doesn't mean I'm a Troll. Jesus Christ 🤣

你本可以证明你的观点，而不是无礼的讥讽“喷子”。尽管如此。我没有不尊重你... 我只是对这件事的看法和重点和你不同。如果我错了，我愿意接受指导。但这并不意味着我是喷子。我了个老天 🤣

Only-Decent -> DeathCape
most advance and lethal tanks
Man.. how many wars it was used in? what is its kill vs death ratio? Can it fire DU rounds ? Does it have active protection?
Let's not circlejerk here..

“最先进和最致命的坦克”
呃... 它有用于多少次战争？它的杀伤率是多少？它能发射贫铀弹吗？它有主动保护吗？
我们不要绕圈子了...

punekar_2018
While expecting anything from govt is futile, I am surprised business houses like Tata have not been able to make even one world-beating product. They may be ethical but all they know is how to make products for Indian market that has mediocre products already so it doesn’t take much to stand out.
Same goes for Reliance and Mittals and Birlas.

虽然对政府的期望都是徒劳的，但我很惊讶像塔塔这样的企业竟然没能制造出哪怕一个世界级的产品。他们可能是有道德的，但他们只会为印度市场制造产品，因为印度市场已经有平庸的产品了，所以不需要太优秀就可以脱颖而出。
信实、米塔尔和毕尔也是如此。

BlackPhantom13542
Arjun tanks aren't a failure. We literally have one of the longest ranges of artillery. And lmfao at thinking Tejas is a bomber. FYI it's also very good in it's class, certainly better than JF-17.

阿琼坦克不是失败品。我们确实拥有射程最远的火炮之一。认为光辉战机是轰炸机的笑死我了。仅供参考，它在同类上也是非常优秀的，肯定比JF-17好。

Purple_Alakazam -> BlackPhantom13542
If Arjun tanks weren't a failure, India wouldn't be buying more T90s and upgrading them.
I was talking about self propelled artillery, not the towed ones. We only have about 150 of them, all from Russia or South Korea. While China has 1000+ of them and Pakistan too has 1000+ of them.
Tejas is a light fighter/bomber, JF-17 is a medium fighter/bomber with better specifications than HAL Tejas.

（题主）如果阿琼坦克没有失败，印度就不会购买更多的T90坦克并对其进行升级了。
我说的是自行火炮，不是牵引火炮。我们只有大约150门，全部来自俄罗斯或韩国。中国有1000多门，巴基斯坦也有1000多门。
光辉战机是一款轻型战斗机/轰炸机，JF-17是中型战斗机/轰炸机，其规格优于光辉战机。

David_Headley_2008
It depends on work culture though, ISRO is a grand success by any countries standards and soon we will have something great to celebrate about, and many of isro's achievements are yet to be replicated elsewhere
India also leads in the sector of chip design, but don't produce chips, why? Reason is because 1980s our labs were burnt down, no doubt about it being arsonism otherwise at that time we were ahead of all east asian countries as the inventor of semiconductor diode was an Indian(JC BOSE)
Similiarily in industrial area,we had many great visionaries who did pioneering work like GD Naidu and shankar abaji bhise.
Innovation needs to be inculcated into children from young age and if brilliance is recognized, we need to use it to our advantage the very first chance we get, if we see brilliance in other countries even that we need to recruite , like all these developing countries, they never let go of talent. I see lot of very naturally creative children and adults there on the streets who don't need a push to come up, but are pushed down by the government, so inorder to make the best products we need to keep best engineers and motivate correctly otherwise they leave

然而，这取决于工作文化，以任何国家的标准来看，印度航天局都是巨大的成功，很快我们就会有值得庆祝的伟大成就，印度航天局的许多成就还未在其他地方复制。
印度在芯片设计领域也处于领先地位，但为什么不生产芯片呢？原因是80年代我们的实验室被烧毁，毫无疑问这是人为纵火，否则在那个时候我们会领先于所有东亚国家，因为半导体二极管的发明者是印度人(JC BOSE)
同样，在工业领域，我们有许多伟大的远见卓识者，他们做了开创性的工作，比如GD Naidu和shankar abaji bhise。
创新需要从小就灌输给孩子们，如果有公认的人才，我们需要第一时间好好为我们所用，如果在其他国家看到了人才，我们也需要去招募，就像所有这些发展中国家，他们从不放弃人才。我在街上看到很多天生就很有创造力的孩子和成年人，他们不需要别人的推动就可以成长起来，但是反而被政府给推倒了，所以为了制造出最好的产品，我们需要留住最好的工程师，并且正确地激励他们，否则他们就会离开。

Purple_Alakazam -> David_Headley_2008
We are so self reliant in weapons industry that we are the largest importer of weaponry. /s🤡🤡
1980s was about 40 years ago. Labs being destroyed by CIA, KGB and MSS is not the reason.
Can you name even one semiconductor designing company from India like Intel and Nvidia, if we lead in semiconductors designing?
As for ISRO, compare their achievements to CNSA's, our main rival and enemy's space agency. Their only achievement is to do missions at a low budget.

（题主）我们在武器工业上这么独立自主，以至于我们是最大的武器进口国。🤡🤡
80年代是40年前的事了，实验室被中情局，克格勃和国安局摧毁不是原因。
如果我们在半导体设计领域处于领先地位，你能说出一家像英特尔和英伟达这样的印度半导体设计公司吗？
至于印度航天局，将他们的成就与我们劲敌的航天局——中国航天局相比较吧。他们唯一的成就就是以低成本执行任务。

Interesting_Creme687
Indian will never become No 1 without developing its own school of RnD.
India should first start by replicating technology like china because even that takes lot of intelligence to learn basics of something
Then take it next level be improving upon it
This is most easy and cheper way of developing RnD
Current generation and startup are actually doing great by developing there own tech
But it is big conglomerates that should cone forward and build high grade RnD centres

如果不发展自己的研发学校，印度永远不会成为世界第一。
印度应该首先从复制技术开始就像中国，因为即使这样做也需要大量的智慧来学习一些基础知识。然后在此基础上再进步。这是最简单、最有效的推动研发的方法。当前这一代人和创业公司通过开发自己的技术实际上做得很好，但是，大企业集团应该挺身而出，建设高水平的研发中心。

Patek1999
I have a strong theory based on my 20+ years experience in tech. Desis want to quickly become managers. Their passion is with career progression. I’ve had white friends who stayed as developers for 20+ years now. They are spectacular developers. They not only learn new languages, they can critique and challenge new languages and even create and innovate at a material level. Not a single one of my developer Indian friend is a developer now. They may dabble in it but almost everyone is a manager. The passion to do the job for years and years and be the best at it is missing in Indians IMHO.

根据我20多年的技术经验，我有一个强有力的理论。印裔想迅速成为经理。他们的激情在于职业发展。我有一些白人朋友，他们做开发人员已经20多年了。他们是了不起的开发者。他们不仅学习新的语言，还会批判和挑战新的语言，甚至在物质层面上进行创造和创新。而我的印度开发者朋友，现在没有一个是开发者了。他们可能会涉足其中，但几乎每个人都是经理。恕我直言，印度人缺乏年复一年地从事这项工作并且做到最好的激情。

crazyhadron
Our institutions teach fuck-all except for the very basics. Anyone who learns anything of value, does it on their own dime. And if they do get good at what they do, they immediately leave for greener pastures abroad.
China would've been in the same basket if they spoke English, since it lowers the barrier to brain drain by a lot.

我们的教育机构除了最基本的东西之外什么都不教。任何人学到任何有价值的东西，都是自己花钱学的。如果他们确实擅长自己的工作，他们就会立即离开去国外寻找更好的牧场。
如果中国也说英语，那么他们也会一样的，因为英语大大降低了人才流失的门槛。

immortal2045
Easy bcz govt hardly cares about it no good environment for r&d not just money but overall...iitians or other top institute engineers don't want to stay in the country...

原因很简单，因为政府几乎不在乎它没有良好的研发环境，不只是钱，而是整体... 印度理工学院学生或其他顶尖研究所的工程师不想留在这个国家...

ExpensiveDig8706
Well it’s true even for IT sector(which India takes so much pride in ) .
There is no innovation or research going on,they are working in certain frameworks for somebody else…
There is no working on core ,,it’s just cheap labour 🤣😂
The Chinese were smart enough to copy and rebrand and then further improve and even introduce new tech .. that’s why they are among the top now

即使是 IT 部门也是这情况（印度对此非常自豪）。
没有创新或研究，他们在特定的框架内为别人工作...
没有核心的工作... 只是廉价的劳动力🤣😂
中国人很聪明，他们能够复制和重塑，然后进一步改进，甚至引入新的技术... 这就是为什么他们现在名列前茅

GoLang01
In my opinion, India has become too comfortable with the idea of being a cheap labor place for Western companies. Hence, there is no innovation. Mostly menial, repetitive work.

在我看来，印度对成为西方公司的廉价劳动力的想法已经太习惯了。所以，没有创新。大部分是卑微、重复性的工作。

Based_Indian007
First understand that we got independence 200 years late then most of the western nations so it's not fair to compare our progress with them.
Now to address your question.. No we are not bad at making stuff. Look at our navy, most of our ships, corvettes, frigates and destroyers are indigenous. Not to forget about arihant class nuclear submarines and ins Vikrant.
Don't just believe anything you come across the internet. Most of critism we face is because of time taken like in case of Tejas or Arjun but people forget that it was our first try in making something so complex from scratch. Not only did we lack experience… US had put sanctions on us (which nearly killed the Tejas program).
Also the payload capacity of Tejas is similar to f 16 and with integration of Astra mk 1 Tejas will directly be in competition with jas 39 gripen and f 16 .

首先要明白，我们的独立比大多数西方国家晚了两百年，所以拿我们的进步和他们比较是不公平的。
现在回答你的问题... 不，我们做东西还不错。看看我们的海军，我们的大部分舰船、轻型护卫舰、护卫舰以及驱逐舰都是国产的。不要忘了阿里汉特级核潜艇和维克兰特。
不要随便相信你在网上看到的任何东西。我们听到的大多数批评都是像光辉战机或阿琼坦克花太长时间这种例子，但人们忘记了这是我们第一次尝试从零开始制作如此复杂的东西。我们不仅缺乏经验... 美国还制裁我们(差点就扼杀了光辉战机计划)。
此外，光辉战机的有效载荷能力类似于F16，随着Astra MK1空空导弹的整合，光辉战机将直接与JAS39鹰狮和F16竞争。

Purple_Alakazam -> Based_Indian007
People's Republic of China was formed in 1949, two years later than Indian Independence, after being in continuous war for over three decades. Israel was formed in the same year. Our date of Independence is not an issue.
Brahmos is partially Russian. Missiles are easier to make even Iran and North Korea have tons of them.
Arjun tanks were really bad. If they were even okayish, then we wouldn't be ordering more T90s from Russia and upgrading them.
Most of the Indian Navy submarines are French or German.
Hal Tejas is worser than F16/J17 on every other metrics. Even it's engine is American.

（题主）中国在经历了三十多年的漫长战争后，于1949年成立，比印度的独立还晚两年。以色列是在同一年成立的。我们独立的时间不是问题所在。
布拉莫斯导弹的部分是俄罗斯的，导弹更容易制造，就连伊朗和朝鲜也有大量的导弹。
阿琼坦克真的很烂。如果它们甚至还不错，那么我们就不会从俄罗斯订购更多的T90和升级它们了。
印度海军的大多数潜艇是法国或德国的。
光辉战机在其他所有指标上都比 F16/J17差，甚至它的发动机也是美国的。

RadioActive421 -> Purple_Alakazam
China has the best infrastructure to steal technology from all over the world. So that gives a huge leg up on any and every initiative for China.

中国拥有最好的基础设施，可以从世界各地窃取技术。所以，这对中国的任何举措来说，都是巨大的优势。

XASASSIN -> RadioActive421
They might be stealing technology, But their manufacturing sector is still light years ahead of india in terms of development and efficiency. I doubt we would even be able to reverse engineer US weapon systems or chipsets even if we had access to them..I mean look at the J20 or SMICs 7nm chip development programs. We dont even have a damn fab over here. Also a lot of their Ships are cutting edge and designed from the ground up, Especially their latest lander and corvette 056 which shows that they have the technical expertise to make high tier advanced weaponry even without blindly copying off US tech. theyve also invested a fuckton into R&D for quantum computing and ai, with even Us firms publishing reports on how to counter their increasing advantages over the western space in these fields. Criticize them where its needed and give credit where its due

他们或许有窃取技术，但就发展和效率而言，他们的制造业仍然领先印度好几光年。我怀疑即使我们有权限访问美国的武器系统或芯片组，我们甚至无法对其逆向工程... 我的意思是看看J20或中芯国际的7nm芯片开发项目。我们这里连个他妈的晶圆厂都没有。此外，他们的很多舰船都是最先进的，而是是从零开始设计，特别是他们最新的着陆器和056型护卫舰，这表明他们拥有制造高水平先进武器的技术专长，即使不盲目照搬美国的技术也能做到。他们还在量子计算和人工智能的研发上投入了大量资金，甚至美国的公司都发表了报告，探讨如何对抗他们在这些领域对西方空间日益增长的优势。批评他们该批评的，赞扬他们该赞扬的。

thiruttu_nai -> Purple_Alakazam
People's Republic of China was formed in 1949, two years later than Indian Independence, after being in continuous war for over three decades. Israel was formed in the same year. Our date of Independence is not an issue.
China was never colonised, weren't deindustralised like us and received tons of technological help from the Soviet Union, Germany and the United States throughout its modern history. Israel put the money they received through Holocaust repartitions and US military and economic aid to good use. None of those countries can be compared to us.

“中国在经历了三十多年的漫长战争后，于1949年成立，比印度的独立还晚两年。以色列是在同一年成立的。我们独立的时间不是问题所在。”
中国从来没有被殖民过，也没有像我们这样被去工业化，在整个现代历史中，中国得到了来自苏联、德国和美国的大量技术援助。以色列很好地利用了他们从大屠杀中获得的资金，以及美国的军事和经济援助。没有一个国家能比我们惨。

Alternative_Ear_861
1.)We have enough to defend from Pakistan
2.)We will never have enough to defend from China.
3.)Even the worlds no 1 army was defeated by Taliban.
4.)There is still water in somebody’s parking that we need to fix first.

1、我们有能力抵御巴基斯坦。
2、我们永远都无法抵御中国。
3、即使是世界第一的军队也被塔利班打败了。
4、有人的停车场里还有积水，我们得先去修好。

karen778 -> Alternative_Ear_861
I think the main reason is India never suffered from much external aggression , hardships create Innovation and strong men (like China's century of humiliation was there starting point )

我认为主要原因是印度从未遭受过多少外来侵略，艰难困苦造就了创新和强人（就像中国的百年屈辱是其起点）

IloveLegs02 -> karen778
India never suffered much from external aggression ?
maybe read a book or two and learn something about british occupation of India, the british in India crossed all levels of savagery
tens of millions of people were starved to death when India was under british occupation, there was no education or employment for most of the population
but the only thing is we didn't learn from it rather we idolize our own colonizers just because of their skin colour

印度从未遭受过多少外来侵略？
也许你该读一两本书，了解一些关于英国占领印度的情况，英国人在印度的野蛮行径达到了登峰造极的地步。
当印度被英国占领时，数千万人被饿死，大多数人没有教育或就业机会。
但唯一的问题是，我们没有从中吸取教训，反而因为殖民者的肤色而崇拜他们。

KausPaus
A country with this big of a population won't work as a democracy.

一个人口如此庞大的国家，不会成为民主国家。

Mr_Wolf33
Rustom isn't military capable? Where did you pull that out from?

Rustom不具备军事能力？你是哪儿听说的？

Only-Decent
Indians aren't bad at engineering at all. It is India (as in systems in place, laws, etc) which bad for engineering.
Let me give you an example. I do high end engineering, (not going to give details).. When I was in US, all I had to do is design something, go to a website and order it, 5 days later I would have it with me, made and shipped from China (rapid prototypes, metal parts, prototypes of PCBs etc). Here it takes couple of months if it gets into the country at all. Most vendors don't want to ship to India at all. The customs is so mind numbingly bad, many times they confiscated my shipments and auctioned-off for non-payment of "dues", which were outrageous.
How can India do any actual engineering? no way.. that is why my hats off to anyone even trying it here, instead of just giving up.

印度人在工程方面一点都不差。是印度(比如在制度、法律等方面)不利于工程。
让我给你举个例子吧。我是从事高端工程的（不打算透露细节）... 当我在美国的时候，我所要做的就是设计一些东西，然后去网站订购，5天后我就会拿到，由中国制造和发货(一些快速原型、金属部件、PCB原型等)。如果要送到这里，印度这个国家，需要几个月的时间。大多数供应商根本不想发货到印度。海关糟糕得吓人，他们很多次没收了我的货物，并且以不支付“会费”为由拍卖掉，无法容忍。
印度怎么做实际的工程？不可能的... 这就是为什么我要向那些“甚至在这里努力而没有放弃”的人脱帽致敬。